Restchord formatting bug

Topic: Restchord formatting bug (Read 20510 times) previous topic - next topic

Restchord formatting bug

2007-06-03 10:08 am

Found the following irritation...

The first bar should, in my view, look like the second...

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble|OctaveShift:None|Color:0|Visibility:Default
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4|Color:0|Visibility:Default
|RestChord|Dur:8th,Slur|Opts:Stem=Up,ArticulationsOnStem,VertOffset=2|Dur2:Whole|Pos2:-3,-2
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-3,2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar|Style:Single|XBarCnt:N|SysBreak:N|Color:0|Visibility:Default
|RestChord|Dur:8th,Slur|Opts:Stem=Up,ArticulationsOnStem,VertOffset=2|Dur2:Whole|Pos2:-3,-2
|Text|Text:"    "|Font:StaffItalic|Pos:3|Wide:Y
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-3,2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

The quaver in the top voice should not appear to be directly chorded with the semibreve chord in the lower voice. The second bar has some white space added to correct the appearance.

Re: Restchord formatting bug

Reply #1 – 2007-06-03 01:30 pm

Concur. This clip:

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up|Dur2:Whole|Pos2:-3,-2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:b-1|Opts:Stem=Up
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

makes it more obvious.
Not a big problem, IMO. One is unlikely to have so many RestChord Whole Note seconds in a piece that they can't be fixed by hand. Usually, NWC2 forces too much space between notes.

Anyone have an opinion about the horizontal rest position? Should it be centered over the note cluster?

Re: Restchord formatting bug

Reply #2 – 2007-06-03 10:40 pm

G'day Rick,

Quote from: Rick G. – 2007-06-03 01:30 pm

Anyone have an opinion about the horizontal rest position? Should it be centered over the note cluster?

Several times I've had occasion to think that NWC should make the right side of such note clusters the reference point for this kind of thing rather than the left side.

Re: Restchord formatting bug

Reply #3 – 2007-06-07 01:06 am

Hi Lawrie,

The problem is that you have a "Text Expression" in the 11th line of your code.

(|Text|Text:" "|Font:StaffItalic|Pos:3|Wide:Y)

If you block the whole G note you will see it. Just delete after blocking and you will see the spacing is now equal. See below.

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble|OctaveShift:None|Color:0|Visibility:Default
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4|Color:0|Visibility:Default
|RestChord|Dur:8th,Slur|Opts:Stem=Up,ArticulationsOnStem,VertOffset=2|Dur2:Whole|Pos2:-3,-2
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-3,2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar|Style:Single|XBarCnt:N|SysBreak:N|Color:0|Visibility:Default
|RestChord|Dur:8th,Slur|Opts:Stem=Up,ArticulationsOnStem,VertOffset=2|Dur2:Whole|Pos2:-3,-2
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-3,2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Carl

Re: Restchord formatting bug

Reply #4 – 2007-06-07 02:29 am

Hi Carl,
Thanks for the input mate but I think you missed the point. I used the text entry to demonstrate how the bar should look.

The first bar is wrong. The second shows where and how it's wrong.

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy – 2007-06-03 10:08 am

The quaver in the top voice should not appear to be directly chorded with the semibreve chord in the lower voice. The second bar has some white space added to correct the appearance.

Re: Restchord formatting bug

Reply #5 – 2007-06-07 02:32 am

Quote from: Carl Mill – 2007-06-07 01:06 am

... you will see the spacing is now equal ...

Lawrie put the text in to show how he thinks it should look. Removing it would defeat his purpose.

The bug/feature is that RestChords only preserve width for the Rest portion, causing too little space if the Chord portion is especially wide. See my post on Squashing UpFlags for why, IMO this is more a feature than a bug. UpFlags are much more numerous than RestChords with Whole Note Second intervals. You can always work around this with some text, or if there are no accidentals, with some extra note space.

Re: Restchord formatting bug

Reply #6 – 2007-06-07 03:04 am

G'day Rick,

Quote from: Rick G. – 2007-06-07 02:32 am

...IMO this is more a feature than a bug. UpFlags are much more numerous than RestChords with Whole Note Second intervals. You can always work around this with some text, or if there are no accidentals, with some extra note space.

Hmm, I see your point, but if the rest aligned with the rightmost note (as I believe is should) instead of the leftmost one then there'd be no problem anyhow...

Re: Restchord formatting bug

Reply #7 – 2007-06-07 05:21 am

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy – 2007-06-07 03:04 am

... if the rest aligned with the rightmost note (as I believe is should)

You can always layer:

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Up,XNoteSpace=1,Muted|Dur2:Whole|Pos2:-2z
|RestChord|Dur:8th|Opts:Stem=Down,ArticulationsOnStem,VertOffset=-2000|Dur2:8th|Pos2:3
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-3,2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-4,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

with:

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Chord|Dur:Whole|Pos:-3,-2
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

to get what you want.

RestChord seconds are tough to find, but the one I did find was on the last page of Debussy's Valse romantique

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble|Visibility:Never
|Key|Signature:Bb|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|RestChord|Dur:4th|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:Half|Pos2:-6,-3,-2,b0
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

G. Schirmer's typesetter's do it just like NWC2
Sorry, can't concur. I could be convinced, but I'd have to see some scans.

Re: Restchord formatting bug

Reply #8 – 2007-06-07 11:45 am

G'day Rick,

Quote from: Rick G. – 2007-06-07 05:21 am

G. Schirmer's typeseter's do it just like NWC2
Sorry, can't concur. I could be convinced, but I'd have to see some scans.

Here is the relevant part of the score I was working from. It's an arrangement of "The Lord's Prayer", though not my favourite...

Re: Restchord formatting bug

Reply #9 – 2007-06-07 05:17 pm

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy – 2007-06-07 11:45 am

Here is the relevant part of the score I was working from.

Your scan is from a computer generated score. The vertical placement of the 8th rest is obviously wrong. If the software used can't grasp the simple concept that rests within a staff must be moved in even increments from the default position, I wouldn't rely on it to inform me of proper horizontal position.

That said, I think we are both right. Consider:

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Chord|Dur:Whole|Pos:-3,-2,1x|Opts:Stem=Down
|Chord|Dur:Whole|Pos:-9x,-6,-3,-2,b0|Opts:Stem=Up
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Here we have simple chords with an X-head standing in for the rest and the stem direction set away from the 'rest'.

When I am in doubt about what a split duration chord should look like I often check to see what NWC2 does with it as a simple (single duration) chord.

Re: Restchord formatting bug

Reply #10 – 2007-06-07 09:47 pm

G'day Rick,

Quote from: Rick G. – 2007-06-07 05:17 pm

Your scan is from a computer generated score. The vertical placement of the 8th rest is obviously wrong. If the software used can't grasp the simple concept that rests within a staff must be moved in even increments from the default position, I wouldn't rely on it to inform me of proper horizontal position.

Fair call. But you never actually specified "proper engraved sources"