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Topic: Slow grace notes (Read 8400 times) previous topic - next topic

Slow grace notes

I tried this to slow down the grace notes but the result is a disaster.
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.751,Single)
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:3^|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,Beam=First|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:2^|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:3^|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:2
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Does exist a trick for this?

Re: Slow grace notes

Reply #1 –
Is there a name, or standard notation, for what you are trying to do? It sounds a bit like a trill, or perhaps a mordent?

Do we need another object? :)

Re: Slow grace notes

Reply #2 –
Works for me. Compare and contrast:
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.751,Single)
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:3^|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:2^|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:3^|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:2
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:2
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Registered user since 1996

Re: Slow grace notes

Reply #3 –
In summary, it appears that hiding the grace notes makes them play differently.

Re: Slow grace notes

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Mike Shawaluk –
In summary, it appears that hiding the grace notes makes them play differently.
A bug of the highest order.  Visibility should never alter playback.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Slow grace notes

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Mike Shawaluk –
In summary, it appears that hiding the grace notes makes them play differently.

Quote from: Rick G. –
A bug of the highest order.  Visibility should never alter playback.

Umm, it DOESN'T on my system.

Flurmy's example and the first part of Rick's example playback identically on my PC.  The second part of Rick's example is, of course, different, but then it is notated differently too (no tied grace notes).
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Slow grace notes

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
Flurmy's example and the first part of Rick's example playback identically on my PC.
Are you sure? On my system, Flurmy's example plays this:
Code: (miditxt) [Select · Download]
0 On ch=1 n=76 v=110
1 On ch=1 n=76 v=0
1 On ch=1 n=74 v=0
1 On ch=1 n=76 v=0
48 On ch=1 n=74 v=110
96 On ch=1 n=76 v=110
144 On ch=1 n=74 v=110
352 On ch=1 n=74 v=0
while my example plays this:
Code: (miditxt) [Select · Download]
0 On ch=1 n=76 v=110
46 On ch=1 n=76 v=0
48 On ch=1 n=74 v=110
94 On ch=1 n=74 v=0
96 On ch=1 n=76 v=110
142 On ch=1 n=76 v=0
144 On ch=1 n=74 v=110
352 On ch=1 n=74 v=0
Registered user since 1996

Re: Slow grace notes

Reply #7 –
Hi Rick, I'm as sure as my can tell...

Attached is an mp3 of what I hear (don't have the MIDI tools you seem to).  The first phrase is Flurmy's, the next 2 are yours.

I had to attach it as a .7z file as I can't upload an mp3
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Slow grace notes

Reply #8 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
I had to attach it as a .7z file as I can't upload an mp3
I don't have the compression tools you have. How 'bout a zip and or mid file?
Registered user since 1996

Re: Slow grace notes

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
I don't have the compression tools you have. How 'bout a zip and or mid file?
I have 7zip installed, and am attaching his .mp3 file in a .zip file.

As a general observation, I know that I'm running NWC under Windows 10, and I suspect that @Rick G. is as well. And, I'm pretty sure that @Lawrie Pardy is running it under Windows XP. Perhaps there is a MIDI rendering error for these notes under newer versions of Windows only?

Re: Slow grace notes

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Mike Shawaluk –
I know that I'm running NWC under Windows 10, and I suspect that @Rick G. is as well.
No, I'm running Win7. I'm curious as to what Version of NWC is being used. I'm using 2.75a.2
Registered user since 1996

Re: Slow grace notes

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
No, I'm running Win7. I'm curious as to what Version of NWC is being used. I'm using 2.75a.2

Win XP SP3, NWC 2.75a2, Yamaha SXG50 Softsynth
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Slow grace notes

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Flurmy –
Does exist a trick for this?
This will get you close:
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.751,Single)
|RestChord|Dur:8th,Grace|Opts:Stem=Down,Muted|Dur2:Whole,Grace|Pos2:-6z^|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace,Tenuto|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,Beam=First|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:8th,Grace|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:Whole,Grace|Pos2:-6z^|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace,Tenuto|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,Beam|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:8th,Grace|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:Whole,Grace|Pos2:-6z^|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Grace,Tenuto|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:8th,Grace|Opts:Stem=Down|Dur2:Whole,Grace|Pos2:-6z^|Visibility:Never
|RestChord|Dur:8th,Grace|Opts:Stem=Down,Muted|Dur2:Whole,Grace|Pos2:-6z|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:2
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Seems OK with piano and harp. May be a bit choppy for winds:
Code: (miditxt) [Select · Download]
0 On ch=1 n=76 v=116
24 On ch=1 n=76 v=0
48 On ch=1 n=74 v=116
72 On ch=1 n=74 v=0
96 On ch=1 n=76 v=116
120 On ch=1 n=76 v=0
144 On ch=1 n=74 v=110
352 On ch=1 n=74 v=0
Registered user since 1996

Re: Slow grace notes

Reply #14 –
How convoluted!
There is something in the NWC handling of grace notes that's out of my logic.
N.B. It seems that the tenuto has very little effect, if any.

Re: Slow grace notes

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Flurmy –
How convoluted!
I agree.
Quote from: Flurmy –
There is something in the NWC handling of grace notes that's out of my logic.
I won't comment on your logic, but NWC 2.75a.2 generates bad MIDI for grace notes that are a final tie destination, if they are not visible.
Quote from: Flurmy –
N.B. It seems that the tenuto has very little effect, if any.
Very little, but some. In the example, the notes stay on for 24 PPQN's instead of 22
Registered user since 1996

Re: Slow grace notes

Reply #16 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
... NWC 2.75a.2 generates bad MIDI for grace notes that are a final tie destination, if they are not visible.
I would suppose that grace notes were probably not designed to be tied to each other. (Grace notes are sort of special creatures, since they play the same duration regardless of the note's printed duration.)
 

Re: Slow grace notes

Reply #17 –
Quote from: Mike Shawaluk –
<snip>(Grace notes are sort of special creatures, since they play the same duration regardless of the note's printed duration.)
IIRC NWC plays grace notes as 32nd notes...
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.