Buglet

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Buglet

16 years ago

I'm working on a multistaff score with the NWC2 window reduced to half the height of the screen so I can copy from a pdf chart.

When I change staffs, the new active staff moves to the vertical centre of the screen. The staff I intend to return to is moved down, almost out of the window.

This movement is annoying because I'm working on the bottom staff of the group, but when I reach up to the staff above it to copy a unison bar, the staffs all move, and now I have to search for the staff I was intending to paste to.

This doesn't occur in full screen, but is does when the window isn't full height.

I'm calling it a buglet because it bugs me. I suspect this is intentional programming, but to me, it's annoying.

Re: Buglet

Reply #1 – 16 years ago

You could give each staff a different color to make it earier to find.

Carl

Re: Too much Vertical Scroll with PgUp, PgDn

Reply #2 – 16 years ago

After 2400 posts, I'd think you would use a more descriptive subject line.

I reckon that NWC2 would be more friendly if it just scrolled one staff at a time.
I won't bore you with alternate windowing arrangements as you have probably tried them.

Re: Buglet

Reply #3 – 16 years ago

I've recently been frustrated by a similar quirk, except mine is the one where you start editing a bar and it sudenly moves to the very left of the edit window and most of the bar actually disappears except for the barline. I find it seems to happen when I'm moving the cursor to the right and reach the end of the screen. Instead of the staff just scrolling left sometimes it jumps a whole screen to the left and places the bar I'm going to at the very left of the screen.

My only problem with this is that it isn't consistent. It just doesn't happen all the time and I haven't been able to determine the conditions that cause it.

One thing I have noted is that it only seems to occur close to the start of a staff - move right to the end of the screen, keep moving the cursor and within a bar or so of the staff starting to scroll left it will suddenly jump so the bar the cursor is positioned in is suddenly on the left edge of the screen. Continue scrolling through the work and it doesn't seem to happen again.

Re: Horizontal Cursor Curiosities

Reply #4 – 16 years ago

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy – 16 years ago

I've recently been frustrated by a similar quirk, except mine is the one where you start editing a bar and it sud[d]enly moves to the very left of the edit window and most of the bar actually disappears except for the barline.

Given the variation of the widths of measures, I'm not surprised. IMO, NWC2 usually shifts far too much to the left when the End key is pressed. NWC2 would be improved if it simply centered the end in the window.

If I am going to do an extensive edit on a measure, I use Ctrl+Left or Ctrl+Right to get the measure well centered before I start.
For some pieces, especially those in 12/8, even this can be problematic.

Perhaps a hotkey to horizontally center the current measure (or the cursor) in the widow?
Maybe the Goto routine could place the cursor at the start of the measure and center it in the window. Then, a simple Ctrl+G, <Enter> would work.

Re: Horizontal Cursor Curiosities

Reply #5 – 16 years ago

Quote from: Rick G. – 16 years ago

Given the variation of the widths of measures, I'm not surprised. IMO, NWC2 usually shifts far too much to the left when the End key is pressed. NWC2 would be improved if it simply centered the end in the window.

This staff is an example. Note that I'm running a 22" monitor so the problem bar my be a bit further off the screen for some - right arrow to bar 14 (or until it jumps for you) and see what happens. I'd be interested to see if you get the same results. This is an excerpt from a transcription I'm working on... Note that the real work uses specific fonts however they are not necessary for things to play up.

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#,C#,G#,D#
|TimeSig|Signature:Common
|Text|Text:"/"|Font:User1|Pos:-3|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
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|Rest|Dur:8th
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|Bar
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|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-3,-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
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|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-6^,-4^|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-6,-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
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|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-3^,0^|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
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|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-3,-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
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|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-3,-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
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|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-4,-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
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|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-4,-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-3^,-1^|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
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|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-4,-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
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|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-2,0
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Quote

If I am going to do an extensive edit on a measure, I use Ctrl+Left or Ctrl+Right to get the measure well centered before I start.
For some pieces, especially those in 12/8, even this can be problematic.

As do I

Quote

Perhaps a hotkey to horizontally center the current measure (or the cursor) in the widow?
Maybe the Goto routine could place the cursor at the start of the measure and center it in the window. Then, a simple Ctrl+G, <Enter> would work.

Works for me. At the moment <Ctrl-G> usually puts you are the far right of the edit screen. Perhaps not really the best place...

Re: Buglet

Reply #6 – 16 years ago

I've had Lawrie's problem also, but when I attempted to duplicate it tonight I couldn't. I do recall that it seems to happen consistently with a certain action - just can't remember what the action is, and I didn't run across it in the series of somewhat random edits I tried.

As for the vertically scrolling staves - David, how many staves show on the screen at one time? Recall that when you make a new staff active in NWC, the program repositions it so that the whole staff - including the space for ledger lines above and below the staff lines - is on the screen. This can be annoying when the notes you want to edit are within the staff and you don't need to see the ledger-line space, but I can see the reason for it. Is making enough room for one staff pushing the other off the screen? If this is the problem, you can either shrink the space above the staff or expand the size of the window.

Re: Buglet

Reply #7 – 16 years ago

Quote from: William Ashworth – 16 years ago

when you make a new staff active in NWC, the program repositions it so that the whole staff - including the space for ledger lines above and below the staff lines - is on the screen.

It would be an improvement if this was what NWC2 did. Unfortunately, it vertically centers the newly selected staff in the window. This is a bigger hike than I expect.

Re: Buglet

Reply #8 – 16 years ago

Interesting example, Rick. The jump happens for me in bar 11, which happens to be the first bar off the right edge of the screen when the score is positioned at "home plate." Could this have something to do with it?

Bill

Re: Buglet

Reply #9 – 16 years ago

Quote from: William Ashworth – 16 years ago

Interesting example, Rick.

I'm confused. I didn't give any examples. Using Lawrie's example, the big jump happens between measures 12 and 13.

Re: Buglet

Reply #10 – 16 years ago

Quote from: Rick G.

It would be an improvement if this was what NWC2 did. Unfortunately, it vertically centers the newly selected staff in the window. This is a bigger hike than I expect.

I guess I haven't had this experience. I rarely edit in anything but full-screen mode, which might explain why I've escaped. Sounds annoying.

(Re "Rick's example" in my previous post - it's actually Lawries. Apologies to both of you for the confusion.)

Bill

Re: Buglet

Reply #11 – 16 years ago

Quote from: William Ashworth – 16 years ago

I rarely edit in anything but full-screen mode

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. I never use NWC2 in fullscreen mode. One of many reasons why Print Preview mode is annoying.

Re: Buglet

Reply #12 – 16 years ago

I'm amazed to see so many people responding so quickly - thanks, everyone.

Just to flesh out the vertical positioning buglet, which is what I hope Eric will address, is that I had two staffs visible, the tenor lines. The reed 2 (alto) line was off the top of the window. I wanted to highlight the next bar (or more) in the reed 3 (tenor) line to copy/paste into the reed 4 (tenor) line. So, I hit page up, the leap happens, and the cursor goes to the centre line of the reed 3 line.

Even more curious is if I click the reed 3 line instead of using page up. When I do that, the reed 2 line leaps into view, but the cursor stays in position even though the reed 3 line has moved down to the vertical centre of the screen. Now I've got a cursor that is going to affect notes in the reed 3 line but that is actually sitting over the centre 'B' line of the top (reed 2) staff. I don't have to actually move it back to start highlighting the notes I want to copy, but if I don't, it just feels wrong.

Re: Buglet

Reply #13 – 16 years ago

Quote from: David Palmquist – 16 years ago

<snip>
Now I've got a cursor that is going to affect notes in the reed 3 line but that is actually sitting over the centre 'B' line of the top (reed 2) staff.

I think I'd call that a bug... Clicking into a staff should position the cursor at the "Pos" where one clicked. The fact that the screen then changes the location of the active staff should NOT leave the cursor in the same physical position on the screen, but it should move with the staff and stay in the same "Pos" as it was placed.

Re: Bug - click outside of staff causes unexpected vertical cursor position

Reply #14 – 16 years ago

Thanks for the report, David.

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy – 16 years ago

I think I'd call that a bug...

I agree. It should not be so easy to enter notes several octaves above or below the staff.
NWC 1.75 exhibits the same behaviour.

Quote from: Lawrie Pardy – 16 years ago

Clicking into a staff should position the cursor at the "Pos" where one clicked.

A tougher call. If you use the keyboard to move to another staff, the cursor moves to Pos:0
I think a good case can be made that if you use the mouse to move to another staff, the cursor should also move to Pos:0

This would be predictable and perhaps easier for the new user.
Advanced users may not like it so much.

This user would prefer that the time be spent fixing slurs.
That said, all bugs should be reported.

Re: Buglet

Reply #15 – 16 years ago

This behavior brings to mind another that is clearly not a bug but is annoying anyway.

I commonly use a mouse click in the staff I want to move to in order to change staves. The natural thing to do, when doing this, is to click next to the note I want to edit. This works fine unless the note is a ledger-line note that is outside the vertical space of the staff (very low or very high). In that case, I get either the staff below or the staff above the one I want to be on. This is particularly bothersome when I have layered staves, with layering active, and the mouse click places the cursor on a different layer than I expect to be working with. It always takes me a few ineffective commands (and equally ineffective curse words) to realize that the wrong elements of the staff are colored blue.

I understand the source of this behavior. It actually makes sense from a programming standpoint, and I'm not sure it should - or can - be changed. But it's still annoying.

Bill

Re: Buglet

Reply #16 – 16 years ago

Quote from: William Ashworth – 16 years ago

This behavior brings to mind another that is clearly not a bug but is annoying anyway.

I agree, but is it annoying enough that any staff change via the mouse should put the cursor at Pos:0?
I'm beginning to think so.

Re: Buglet

Reply #17 – 16 years ago

Quote from: Rick G.

is it annoying enough that any staff change via the mouse should put the cursor at Pos:0?

Agreed. But it's only a minor annoyance - clicking twice takes care of it. Unless you're clicking in what the program considers to be a different staff than the one you're aiming at.

Re: Buglet

Reply #18 – 16 years ago

Just had the "leaping sideways" phenomenon take place. I highlighted a note just to the right of a barline near the right margin of the screen with the mouse, pressed alt-enter to bring up the properties menu, and the barline leaped to the left margin. Didn't happen when I highlighted, only when I brought up the properties menu. I'm sure there are other causes, but this one at least should be fixable - unless it's designed behavior. In that case, we need to address the question of whether it's desirable or not.

Bill

Re: Buglet

Reply #19 – 16 years ago

Quote from: David Palmquist – 16 years ago

This doesn't occur in full screen, but is does when the window isn't full height.

It happens any time you have more staves than will display in the window at one time. I doubt that NWC2's scrolling routines distinguish between maximized and normal. That sort of thing is usually left to Windows.

Quote from: William Ashworth – 16 years ago

Just had the "leaping sideways" phenomenon take place. I highlighted a note just to the right of a barline near the right margin of the screen with the mouse, pressed alt-enter to bring up the properties menu, and the barline leaped to the left margin.

This happens when try to get the properties of objects on the right of the window. It does not happen on the left of the window. I much prefer the behaviour on the left of the window.

It could be that NWC2 simply leaves all these decisions to Windows. If so, overriding the default behaviour is likely to introduce a number of subtle bugs.

All this is further complicated by situations where an entire staff won't fit vertically within the window or a measure won't fit horizontally. NWC2 can't simply give up, it has to do something.

Re: Buglet

Reply #20 – 16 years ago

Quote

It happens any time you have more staves than will display in the window at one time.

I'm not sure it happens consistently with a maximized window. I just tested a full score. Clicking on the staffs that are at the top edge or bottom edge of the window will trigger the leap, but it doesn't happen if you click on the other visible staffs between the extremes.

Re: Buglet

Reply #21 – 16 years ago

Quote from: David Palmquist – 16 years ago

it doesn't happen if you click on the other visible staffs between the extremes.

Agreed. No reason why it should.