Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Workflow recommendations? (Read 8159 times) previous topic - next topic

Workflow recommendations?

I'm transcribing some arrangements for a friend and I'm only interested in good quality paper output - essentially matching his notation as best possible.

I'm using beta 2.16 and find typing in the notes and indications to be very tedious. Is  there a preferred way to work?

I'm setting up a choral score of 7 voices and there are times when dynamics and cresc. and decresc. are duplicated in two lines (at other times they are different, too), can I copy and paste whole sections of dynamic marks from one to the other? Maybe I should put the dynamics in first and then copy that section of staff to the other voice and add the notes afterward?

He uses a lot of dynamic markings and sometimes they get crowded so that placement of a dynamic and a decresc. and another dynamic have to be placed on on a couple of notes. I often have to play with locating them 4 or 5 times before I get them cleared up, even when added spacing of notes has been applied. "Best fit", Best fit forward", etc. don't always solve the problem, I wish I could just grab the mark and put it exactly where I want it or stretch a hairpin to fit. Any advice on how to do this efficiently?

Any other shortcuts to this time-consuming task? I'm not a musician and read music poorly, so I'm doing it by the click and check method, analogous to hunt and peck in typing except that I have to look from the manuscript to the screen and back for almost every mark. It takes me about an hour per page and I have a lot of pages.

Thanks for any help,

Frank

Re: Workflow recommendations?

Reply #1 –
If you're going to be doing a lot of transcribing of music that's already on paper, I'd recommend using Sharpeye.exe, available from http://www.visiv.co.uk/index.htm  You still have to correct and edit it, but it will probably cut the amount of time you spend entering the notes in 1/2.  You can use it free for 30 days, but I think you're restricted to processing one image at a time.  The paid version will batch process several pages. 

You have to create an image of the original sheet music as a black and white TIFF file, and import that.  Then Sharpeye processes it.  You fix whatever errors you can there, then save it as an XML file, and use http://www.niversoft.com/'s mxml2nwcc.exe to import it into NWC2, where you do your final corrections.  What used to take me about 30 hours takes only 10 or 15 now.

For your repetitive markings, try using a layered staff filled with muted, hidden notes.  They can anchor the postions of your markings, and then you just place it under each part.  If you need to make seven layered staffs, it only takes a moment to copy one to another.

There's not much you can do about automatically preventing markings from colliding.  It's just tedious work.  What I would do, though, is write the notes and rests first, then simply go back to the beginning of each staff and move along to where each mark is needed.  Move your cursor up or down to get the right vertical position before you enter the marking. 

If three or four staffs have the same marks, after you've done the first staff, just go back, move along again, and copy/paste from the first to the others. 

Finally, if you just want to place all dynamic markings in a staff at the same height, highlight from the first mark to the end of the staff, and use Control E to change the vertical position.  That will also affect all text entries, too, so you should be cautious about doing it.

Hope this helps a bit.

A silly question - if all you want is paper output, why not just photocopy?




Re: Workflow recommendations?

Reply #2 –
The best approach to complex dynamics is to use text instead. Use Staff Italic or (even better) set up a User Font for dynamics. Restrict yourself to using Center at next Note/Bar for all dynamcs. By padding the text with spaces you can horizontally position these to the nearest few pixels or so. To get vertical alignment across several staves, make sure you hang the text on notes at the same vertical position. This will sometimes require putting invisible notes/rests in a part.

For hairpins, I put an invisible rinforzando (Right at next Note/Bar) on the preceeding Bar. Moving it vertically, moves the hairpin. Something like this:
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Chord|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:-3,0
|Rest|Dur:8th
|DynamicVariance|Style:Rinforzando|Pos:-9|Justify:Right|Placement:AtNextNote|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-5,-3|Opts:Crescendo
|Chord|Dur:8th,Dotted|Pos:-3,0|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam=First
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:0,3|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam=End
|Bar
|Text|Text:"mf   "|Font:StaffItalic|Pos:-9|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:0,3
|Chord|Dur:8th,Dotted|Pos:0,2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-3,1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
To get hairpins to begin and end in the same vertical position will sometimes require adding notes to some parts.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Workflow recommendations?

Reply #3 –
G'day Frank,

Quote from: NJFRANK –
<snip>so I'm doing it by the click and check method, analogous to hunt and peck in typing except that I have to look from the manuscript to the screen and back for almost every mark.

I won't touch on the other points as they are already dealt with, but I couldn't help noticing the "click" comment.   Lose the mouse!  Without doubt, the fastest way to enter music in NWC is to use the keyboard.

When I'm entering music by hand I position the cursor at the first note position with the arrow keys, select the duration with my left hand from the number keys on the typewriter section of the keyboard:
1 = whole/semibreve
2 = hald/minim
3 = quarter/crotchet
4 = eighth/quaver
5 = sixteenth/semiquaver
6 = thirtysecond/demisemiquaver

<Enter> places a note, <space> is a rest.

Then while looking at the source, NOT the screen I move the cursor up and down by counting lines and spaces:

E.G. I start on a, say, a C then down 3 to G, up 5 to E, down 1 to D etc.  At the same time I'm selecting duration so the keypresses might be:
<3><.><Enter><Dn><Dn><Dn><4><Enter><Up><Up><Up><Up><Up><3><Enter><Dn><Enter>

This will give a dotted crotchet on C, a quaver on G, a Crotchet on E and a crotchet on D, all without looking at the screen.  I actually check the screen every 2nd or 3rd bar to make sure the last note is where it should be.  If it is I assume that the preceeding notes are OK and continue, if not I go back and check to see where I miscounted - you get used to it and can become very fast.  The final check is playback while reading the original chart.

You need to know the keyboard shortcuts but this doesn't take long.  You can also do almost everything on the numeric keypad but I find that I prefer the "two handed" method and only use the numeric pad "single hand" method for a change.

I can do several pages of piano and vocal (typically 6 or 7 pages, 3 staves) in not much more than an hour, including lyrics, dynamics and Chord symbols (as text).

I do use the mouse for dynamics as the toolbar makes it faster, plus the change from keyboard to mouse relieves the tendon stress that the keyboard speed I'm using can produce.

Hairpins: <Shift-Left/Right Arrow> highlights the notes to be Cresc. decresc. and (In NWC2) Greater/less than gives the hairpin on those notes.

For other markings: <;> is a slur, </> is a tie, <,> is a stacato, <.> is an augmentation dot, <!> is an accent, <_> is a tenuto.  These give 99% of what you need.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Workflow recommendations?

Reply #4 –
Get a Creative Prodikey keyboard or use a MIDI Out keyboard to place the notes. You'll need to set MIDI Input active in the toolbar.

Right hand sets the attributes (see above) and left hand inserts the notes.

Re: Workflow recommendations?

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
Lose the mouse!  Without doubt, the fastest way to enter music in NWC is to use the keyboard.

Then while looking at the source, NOT the screen I move the cursor up and down by counting lines and spaces...
...go back and check to see where I miscounted...
...The final check is playback while reading the original chart.
I totally agree with Lawrie,  My wife works with the mouse a lot and she takes about 3-4 times as long to do an octavo as I do. 
When I am doing big band charts, I enter all of the information (notes, dynamics, articulations, text items, etc.) on the Alto I staff and copy it to the Alto II staff.  I then select the entire staff (unless there's some unison figure somewhere) and drag it down two notches.  Then I paste the Alto I part onto the Tenor I and Bari staves and the Alto II part onto the Tenor II staff.  Naturally there are a few wrong notes (but not as many as you might think), so I adjust those where needed.  The same basic procedure works for the Trumpet and Trombone sections.  I usually copy the Trumpet I part to the Trombone IV part and then work my way up through the Trombone section (less dragging...).

Re: Workflow recommendations?

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
SNIP
This will sometimes require putting invisible notes/rests in a part.
SNIP

I can't find anything about invisible notes. I looked in help and the online info. What's the trick?

Frank

Re: Workflow recommendations?

Reply #7 –
The properties of almost any element (notes, rests, bar lines, etc.) can be seen by highlighting the element and pressing Control-E or Alt-E.  The popout window has several tabs, including Visibility.  There you are given a few choices, Never, Always, and Top System Only. 

You can also set the visibility on the initial input of some of the elements.

In NWC2, you can also fake an invisible note by making it a headless note and making its stem length zero.  This is because if a note or rest is set to visibility = never, it won't take up any horizontal space, but sometimes you want it to. 

Re: Workflow recommendations?

Reply #8 –
Quote from: David Palmquist –
A silly question - if all you want is paper output, why not just photocopy?

I was wondering the same thing, so I read the original question:

Quote from: NJFRANK –
I'm transcribing some arrangements for a friend and I'm only interested in good quality paper output - essentially matching his notation as best possible.

Apparantly he's transposing to another key, or sticking it on a different clef.  That wouldn't be very easy to do with a copy machine.

They should invent a copy machine that transposes your sheet music for you.

Re: Workflow recommendations?

Reply #9 –
Quote
Apparantly he's transposing to another key, or sticking it on a different clef.

Could be, I suppose.  He also could be extracting instrument or voice parts from a full score. 

Re: Workflow recommendations?

Reply #10 –
Quote
...essentially matching his notation as best possible

Perhaps the original is hand written..?
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Workflow recommendations?

Reply #11 –
Maybe I didn't mention it in this thread, but I'm trying to produce a +/- publication quality score from a manuscript - a 20 year old photocopy of a manuscript, in fact.

The friend is New London, CT composer/historian/political leader Charles Frink and the score is a set of arrangements of African-American Spirituals which are to be performed by the Festival Chorale Oregon in September.

The FCO did perform them recently from copies of my copies of the manuscripts and there was some confusion and difficulties in reading the music. I hope to prevent that from becoming a reason to put the scores aside and also hope to get the music better known as they are by far the best arrangements of Spirituals that I have ever heard and one time long ago had the pleasure of performing.

Regards, and thanks for your help,

Frank

Re: Workflow recommendations?

Reply #12 –
Ah, yes, manuscripts, with various shortcuts, erasures, cross-outs, etc. can be a real pain to play or sing from. 

Best of luck.  Sounds like a laudable objective. 

Re: Workflow recommendations?

Reply #13 –
Yes, I've tried reading manuscripts of W. A. Mozart and Chip Davis (the new age electric orchestral composer/director for Mannheim Steamroller)...it's not easy.  Mozart's notes are all curvy and stuff, like he forgot to put them in and fixed them later, and Chip's music is just plain sloppy.
 

Re: Workflow recommendations?

Reply #14 –
Fortunately, Charles Frink's manuscript is a model of how good a manuscript can be. Festival Chorale Oregon actually did perform from copies of my copies with only some difficulty - I can't imagine that happening with the ones you describe. What I'm doing is polishing the apple, if I had to work with a poor manuscript, I don't know enough about music to succeed.

I'm hoping that getting the music into this form will give it a new life and maybe get some interest in Charles's other work. I also have a score of one of his original works based on a Whitman poem, but that's a much larger piece and I'm not prepared to convert 140 pages for voices and small orchestra. Fortunately, that score is so easy to read in manuscript, I think all I have to do is put out a clean copy and extract the parts.

Regards,

Frank