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Topic: Help with patch problems For NWC V1.75 (Read 5810 times) previous topic - next topic

Help with patch problems For NWC V1.75

I have the unregistered NWC 1.75. I am writing music for my high school drumline. I want to have accurate mp3s to play for them to hear how it goes. The only problem is, I have the Snare sounding like a woodblock, the Tenors (quads) set to 'melodic tom' and the Bass drums on 'Taiko.' I looked at the drop down menu for patch lists, and I seen that in the patch list type 'MT-32' there is a 'deep snare' patch. I selected that patch for the snare staff. I played it back and it sounded like the steel drum patch. Yes, I have all staffs on different channels. Anyways, I clicked the 'general midi' patch list type and steel drums was selected. I am clueless as to what is wrong, or what I can do. I just want a snare patch that on the B4 line will sound like a snare. Even if all the lines are just different pitched snare sounds, I can work with that. What can I do? PLEASE Reply to this post or email if you can find anyway to help me.lead_guitarist14@hotmail.com

Re: Help with patch problems For NWC V1.75

Reply #1 –
OK, my best advice is to set the snare channel to 10 (Standard percussion channel for most synths).  Then select Acoustic Grand Piano from the General MIDI patch List Type.  This will give the "standard" percussion selections...

The NOTE to play is a bass clef D nat. below the staff (acoustic snare), or a bass clef E nat. below the staff (electric snare).

The MT-32 patch list is simply a naming standard, as is the General MIDI patch list, that gives correct patch information for the synthesiser in use.  If you don't have an MT-32 type synth. then that selection is inappropriate.

My next best advise is to register the software... ;)

Welcome to the forum, hope this was helpful.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Help with patch problems For NWC V1.75

Reply #2 –
Quote from: LeadGuitarist14 –
I seen that in the patch list type 'MT-32' there is a 'deep snare' patch. I selected that patch for the snare staff. I played it back and it sounded like the steel drum patch.
As Lawrie says, the Patch List Type is just a convience. To actually get an MT-32 sound, your soundcard needs to be set up to do an MT-32 emulation.

Drumlines are best done with NWC2. It has a transpose option in the Instrument Patch to help you align the Channel 10 drum kit to a given staff position. It also has the 'X' and diamond noteheads, and a percussion Clef that are usually used for non-pitched percussion.

For NWC 1.75, you can use Staff Properties->MIDI->Transposition as I have done in the attachment. For multiple instruents on one staff, put each instrument on its own staff with its own transposition and layer them.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Help with patch problems For NWC V1.75

Reply #3 –
hmm... well i tried it and for one, the transposition is kinda weird. even when i transpose -3 or +6 they still dont sound different. Another thing. Is it possible for me to get my soundcard to be setup for the mt-32 synth? I think that would work best, because I need to have the *note* on the middle line, but I need it to sound like a snare, and seeing as how there is a whole snare patch on the mt-32 patch list type, I am pretty sure it'd work. Same with the bass drums. I need to have at least 4 low, pitched, bass sounding stuff on the e, c, a, and f lines. Like I say, I'm writing this stuff for my drumline so i need it to sound right, AND be playable by the percussionists.

Re: Help with patch problems For NWC V1.75

Reply #5 –
Lead Gtrst, even with the snare on MIDI channel 10 (which is reserved for percussion sounds no matter what your sound card, unless a rather old one) and even with transposing from what Lawrie correctly told you is the ONE note (D nat. below bass clef) that will produce acoustic snare, there is a reason why your transpositions don't give the desired result.

On all other MIDI channels except 10, the synth puts out only one instrument sound (patch, MIDI program no.) and the pitch changes with the staff line of the note.  So transpositions have the expected result -  the one instrument sound selected comes out higher or lower than "written", that is, displayed.  But on MIDI channel 10, ALL the standard percussion sounds are available, the particular percussion instrument (correct me if this is wrong) being determined by the written, that is, the displayed pitch, and transpositions selected in F2 Staff Properties do not change the percussion instrument fed to the synth by the actual displayed note. 

If you need to have the snare part on the middle line (I assume of the bass clef), perhaps the best way to make that happen is to key the snare part on that middle staff line and choose Muted from Staff Properties.  Then add a new blank staff (Ctrl-A), select the entire snare part you have keyed on the first staff, and copy it and paste it into the new blank staff.  Name the first staff (in Display in Staff Properties) "Snare Display Muted" and name the new, 2nd staff "Snare Hidden Sounding".  On the sounding staff, choose MIDI channel 10.  Select the entire staff and hold down Ctrl-Shift and do as many Up Arrow keystrokes as necessary to drop the part to D nat. below bass clef (12 times if going from mid-line D to D below bass clef).

For each new percussion part repeat the process.  First compose the part on the desired staff line with Muted chosen and staff name "instrument Display Muted".  Add a new blank staff, copy and paste into it, Ctrl-Shift drag the part to the correct staff line for the percussion instrument (look up drumref.nwc for the staff line), choose MIDI channel 10, name it "instrument Hidden Sounding".

When you have composed all your parts, move the staffs into two groups, the Display staffs in the top group and the Hidden staffs in the bottom group.  If you want to have a score with separate staffs for each inst., do not choose layering.  If you want all percussion parts printed on one staff, in Staff Properties for those staffs, choose Layer With Next Staff for only the Display group staffs.

Go to File-Page Setup.  Choose to display only the Display staffs by unchecking the Hidden staffs in Show.  Not at my home computer right now, so don't remember exactly where, but for the piece's properties choose Allow Layering.  Trial and error in Print Preview and changing point size will give you the results you want on the page and to your ear.  Good luck!

Re: Help with patch problems For NWC V1.75

Reply #6 –
3rd paragraph should read "Down Arrow", not Up Arrow.  Oops!

Re: Help with patch problems For NWC V1.75

Reply #7 –
G'day Milton,
ya did ask...:)
 
Quote from: Milton –
<snip>
On all other MIDI channels except 10, the synth puts out only one instrument sound (patch, MIDI program no.) and the pitch changes with the staff line of the note.  So transpositions have the expected result -  the one instrument sound selected comes out higher or lower than "written", that is, displayed.  But on MIDI channel 10, ALL the standard percussion sounds are available, the particular percussion instrument (correct me if this is wrong) being determined by the written, that is, the displayed pitch, and transpositions selected in F2 Staff Properties do not change the percussion instrument fed to the synth by the actual displayed note. 
<snip>
If you transpose the staff, the note positions for each "instrument" in the percussion channel do change.  So for LeadGuitarist to get the acoustic snare from the Dnat below the staff to the D (middle) line in the staff he will have to transpose the staff down 12 semitones.  Of course this would also affect any other drums/percussion on that staff.  Thus, every drum/percussion instrument will need its own staff and staff transposition to get the notes where he wants 'em.  And they'll all need to be on channel 10 (except for things that have their own patch like the Taiko drum etc.).

Lead Guitarist,
if you want all the music to be on one staff you'll need to use Milton's suggestion of visible, muted and hidden, sounding staves.

As for the MT-32 patches - unless you have an MT-32 sound card or one that can be programmed to emulate one then this patch list is useless to you.  To explain, all the patch list does is to make it easier to locate an instrument.  So, if the "Deep Snare" you want is on patch 114 (zero based) in the MT-32 list (which it is), it will play back as patch 114 (zero based) on a general MIDI card, which happens to be "Steel Drums".  And you will get steel drums on every GM card you try on that patch - It will only be a Deep Snare on an MT-32 card (which I've never seen...)

So, to get a snare with your General MIDI synth. you must:
  • Use channel 10 for the staff - don't worry, you can use channel 10 from multiple staves if necessary and they will be largely independent of each other except for things like staff (should really be channel) volume and other things that effect the entire channel (not dynamics unless you use the volume override)
  • Important, don't neglect to do this, even though it will usually work without it - Select the first patch in instrument selection for the staff - Acoustic Grand Piano in the General MIDI list in NWC 1.75 - this will affect EVERY staff on channel 10, which is fine, you only use channel 10 for percussion and this is the correct choice until you are ready to explore the other, subtly, different drums on a few other patches.  The instrument/patch selected here defines the drum kit used - standard, orchestral, brushes etc..  There are references available to tell you which patch gives which drum kit.  This is also synth. dependant.
  • Use a bass clef in NWC1.75 or either the percussion clef OR the bass clef in NWC2
  • Don't use a key signature (other than C Maj if you must) - you actually can, but it can be confusing so it's best not to until you have a really good handle on what you're doing.
  • Transpose the staff DOWN 12 semitones to get the snare on the middle line
  • Write your music
  • Play and enjoy ;)
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Help with patch problems For NWC V1.75

Reply #8 –
Attached is a simple NWC file (1.75c).
It uses the transposition technique described by Lawrie.
Examine the Staff Properties for each staff.
Each staff transposition move the playback sound to it's correct position in the General MIDI Standard.

Re: Help with patch problems For NWC V1.75

Reply #9 –
Sweet thanks so much people. I actually first transposed the snare line to the snare sound on the acoustic grand piano and then copied the whole staff and pasted it onto a new NWC file. Then I repeated with the other staffs. That way I have a version with the sound I want, and another one with the correct notes. There's probably other ways to do it, but I'm just very glad to have the Mp3 version exported. I dont need correct playback and notation on the same file, because I just export the .mid version and use itunes to convert it to AAC and then put it on my ipod. So, thanks again I appreciate it greatly.
 

Re: Help with patch problems For NWC V1.75

Reply #10 –
LeadGuitarist, I'm glad you got things worked out.  I'm sure you'll agree (especially when NWC trial stops working after 30 days!) that NWC is a steal for $49 and go ahead and register it.  Thanks, Lawrie!  I was at work and couldn't confirm the MIDI channel 10 issue, at least not while trying to appear busy!