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Topic: Stuck notes again (Read 4972 times) previous topic - next topic

Stuck notes again

Mostly fixed in ver 1y, but this cropped up in the newsgroup:

Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Instrument|Name:"Flute"|Patch:73|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127|Pos:10
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatOpen
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-4^
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-4
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-2^
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-2
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0^
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Key|Signature:Bb,Eb,Ab
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:-2
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

By changing the KeySig, you can get all, some, or none or the notes to stick.
99.99% of the time you will want to repeat in the original key so you should restore the KeySig, but it should be fixed.  This is a problem with D.S. flows as well.
Registered user since 1996

[Bug: NWC2 Preview 1y] Stuck notes on key change in special ending

Reply #1 –
Status: Confirmed, Situation will be improved in NWC2 Preview 1z

Details:
NWC2 includes special handling for note ties. The NWC2 editor integrates a single pass play back interpreter that analyzes note ties, and only allows the ties to terminate to notes that are eligible to have the same accidental. Currently, it assigns a hidden accidental to all notes that receive note ties, so they are properly performed during play back.

One of the unusual aspects of NWC(2) is that dramatic play back changes can be initiated in special endings and flow redirection, including a change of key signature. This means that the same notation sequences can be played in different keys, depending on the repeat. This trick can sometimes be useful in NWC composition, although it is generally not standard notation, and would be difficult for a live performer to accomplish.

When including a dynamic key change within a NWC2 repeated sequence, an unnecessarily large problem with note ties can occur, as shown here.

Improved in NWC2 Preview 1z

Reply #2 –
This issue will be improved in NWC2 Preview 1z. Basically, terminating tied notes will be permitted to use the dynamic play back context for accidental assignment when no conflicts are otherwise detected. A problem can still be created if the composer includes "out of key" ties across bar lines, or other situations where the tied note's accidental does not match the current dynamic play back context.

Re: Stuck notes again

Reply #3 –
So one will be able to write a section in A and then revisit it in Ab as long a there is not a tied note at the flow redirection that is affected by the key change. Sounds good, but ...

I suspect that it will only be a few weeks before you get another stuck note report.  Knowing that it can only be caused by a tie across a key change will help find it, but it would be nice to finally end this problem.

Something you might consider is an "all notes off" for the channel at each key change.  I can't say that I have ever seen a tie across a key change.  Someone will probably prove me wrong.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Stuck notes again

Reply #4 –
You will be able to tie across a key change, but you can run into trouble if that tie is revisited in the new key. An example:

Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:C
|Instrument|Name:"Flute"|Patch:73|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127|Pos:10
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatOpen
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-3
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-4^
|Key|Signature:Bb,Eb,Ab
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-4
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-2
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose|SysBreak:Y
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Further changes to deal with this will be considered, but there is a law of diminishing returns when focusing on obscure areas like this. In general, I would recommend against key changes done like this anyway.

Re: Stuck notes again

Reply #5 –
...a tie across a key change... 
I've seen it lots of times.
We are currently playing Bernstein's [shadow=beige,left]Symphonic Dances from West Side Story[/shadow], and I have a few in there.

Re: Stuck notes again

Reply #6 –
Ties across a key change are actually quite common.  Particularly when you have a pedal, and especially when  temporary jumps to other keys are being noted, as opposed to using accidentals.

Re: Stuck notes again

Reply #7 –
Another source of stuck notes:
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Instrument|Name:"Recorder"|Patch:74|Trans:0|DynVel:10,30,45,60,75,92,108,127|Pos:8
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0^
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0|Opts:Muted
|Rest|Dur:Whole
|Rest|Dur:Whole
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:b0
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Tieing a note into a muted note supresses the midi note off

It might seem logical that a muted note produces no output, but perhaps it should act as a note with no initial note on.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Stuck notes again

Reply #8 –
AND its not synth specific - tested on 3 S/W and 2 soundfonts in 2 H/W synths (both in my audigy)
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Stuck notes again

Reply #9 –
Your example does cause a stuck note, but NWC2 is probably not going to have any changes to prevent such a construct. I suppose the other option would be prevent a tie from resolving into a muted note.
 

Re: Stuck notes again

Reply #10 –
Preventing a tie from resolving to a muted note would be awkward for anyone who didn't know about it. Might be best just to have the muted note turn the note it's tied to off when reached.