Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Thinking Through Flow (Read 3473 times) previous topic - next topic

Thinking Through Flow

Hello everyone

I'm working on a new instrumental arrangement and considering my options for flow. How you  would choose to lay it out with flow instructions?

Sax solo chorus
Sax and piano chorus
Sax and piano verse
Piano chorus
Sax and piano verse
Sax and piano chorus
Sax solo chorus last phrase

Thanks for your ideas!

Re: Thinking Through Flow

Reply #1 –
Hey Sebc, currently my brain is not in very good shape, severe lack of sleep, so there won't be any examples, but...

Something I often use is hidden special endings and hidden dynamics.  This takes advantage of some quirks that NWC has that I don't think were actually intended but which can be quite useful.  Specific results may be unpredictable.

E.G. for each time through that an instrument is silent you have a hidden special ending for that time through that has a hidden ppp dynamic, and each time the instrument plays you have another hidden special ending that has the correct dynamic (still hidden).

After each set of special endings you have a yet another hidden one that includes ALL the times through so the flow will work.

NB the hidden special endings ONLY contain dynamics.

The start of the song is, it appears, the chorus, so for the sax part you would have:
Hidden SE 1,2,4,5 normal dynamic, SE 3 ppp, hidden SE 1,2,3,4,5 music in the bar, barline, following bars... Visible? SE 1,4 REPEAT
Piano:
Hidden SE 1,5 ppp, SE 2,3,4 normal dynamic, hidden SE 1,2,3,4,5 music in the bar, barline, following bars... Visible? SE 1,4 REPEAT

To end the song, after the SE 1,4 repeat you have Visible? SE 5 with a fine and Section Close bar.  To allow the verse, after the SE 1,4 repeat and SE 5 you have the SE 2,3 verse bars and repeat sign.  Both Sax and Piano should have correct dynamics for the verse as every time the verse happens both of them play.

I think I have the basic instructions OK - but now my brain hurts too much to continue (and no, I'm not hungover, just over tired :) )

You will need to play around - be aware: decorated barlines stop the repeat counter - if you need *some (other than repeat barlines of course) you'll need to simulate them, or use a text entry of some kind.  (E.G. a double barline can be made with a normal barline, a spacer, and another normal barline.)  I suggest you get things going without any decorated barlines, then add whatever you need and make sure they don't screw up the flow.

Hope this is more helpful than confusing.

* The section close in SE5 is OK.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.
 

Re: Thinking Through Flow

Reply #2 –
Thanks, Lawrie! I’ll give this a thorough read tomorrow when MY brain is fresh!

I suspect that the instructions would likely change for a printed score to be performed by live musicians? That’s the case for me but I also like to make listening tracks, too.

Re: Thinking Through Flow

Reply #3 –
Quote from: SEBC –
Thanks, Lawrie! I’ll give this a thorough read tomorrow when MY brain is fresh!
:))

Quote from: SEBC –
I suspect that the instructions would likely change for a printed score to be performed by live musicians? That’s the case for me but I also like to make listening tracks, too.
No, that's why you hide some of the S.Es and the dynamics required for the tacet parts...

Here's an excerpt from something I did a few years ago.  This is the Horn part, but not in a publishable state.
Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.751,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:Bb|Tonic:F
|TimeSig|Signature:Common
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatOpen
|Rest|Dur:Whole
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose
|RestMultiBar|NumBars:6|PrintOnce:N|WhenHidden:ShowBars,ShowRests
|Bar
|TempoVariance|Style:Accelerando|Pos:-7.5
|RestMultiBar|NumBars:2|PrintOnce:N|WhenHidden:ShowBars,ShowRests
|Bar
|Rest|Dur:Half,Dotted|Opts:XDotSpace=0.5
|Dynamic|Style:mp|Pos:-15
|Text|Text:"Soli"|Font:PageSmallText|Pos:8
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-6
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-3|Opts:Crescendo
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2|Opts:Crescendo
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1|Opts:Crescendo
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-5|Opts:Crescendo
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2|Opts:Crescendo
|Bar
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Crescendo,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-3|Opts:Crescendo
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Dynamic|Style:ppp|Pos:-7|Justify:Right|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatOpen
|Ending|Endings:1,3|Visibility:Never
|Dynamic|Style:ppp|Pos:-11.5|Justify:Right|Visibility:Never
|Ending|Endings:2,4|Visibility:Never
|Dynamic|Style:mf|Pos:-8|Justify:Center
|Ending|Endings:1,2,3,4|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"Tacet vs 1&3"|Font:StaffItalic|Pos:7.5
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-2
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Bar
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-3
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Bar
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-4
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-5|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-3
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Bar
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-2
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Bar
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-3
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Bar
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-4
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-3
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Bar|Style:Double
|RestMultiBar|NumBars:3|PrintOnce:N|WhenHidden:ShowBars,ShowRests
|Bar
|Ending|Endings:1,3|Visibility:Never
|Dynamic|Style:ppp|Pos:-9|Justify:Right|Visibility:Never
|Ending|Endings:2,4|Visibility:Never
|Dynamic|Style:ff|Pos:-9.5|Justify:Right
|Ending|Endings:1,2,3,4|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Accent|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2
|Text|Text:"Divisi"|Font:PageSmallText|Pos:8
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-6,-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-6,-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-3,-1
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Chord|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-6,-2
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Bar
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-6,-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:-6,-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-6,-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Chord|Dur:4th,Triplet=First|Pos:-5,0
|Chord|Dur:8th,Triplet=End|Pos:-6,-1
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:-7,-5
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-7,-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:-7,-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Text|Text:"Soli"|Font:PageSmallText|Pos:8
|Ending|Endings:1,3|Visibility:Never
|Dynamic|Style:ppp|Pos:-9|Justify:Right|Visibility:Never
|Ending|Endings:2,4|Visibility:Never
|Dynamic|Style:f|Pos:-9.5|Justify:Right
|Ending|Endings:1,2,3,4|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-3
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Bar|Style:Double
|RestMultiBar|NumBars:6|PrintOnce:N|WhenHidden:ShowBars,ShowRests
|Bar
|Ending|Endings:1,3|Visibility:Never
|Dynamic|Style:ppp|Pos:-9|Justify:Right|Visibility:Never
|Ending|Endings:2,4|Visibility:Never
|Dynamic|Style:f|Pos:-9.5|Justify:Right
|Ending|Endings:1,2,3,4|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Ending|Endings:1,3|ClosedBracket:Y
|Rest|Dur:Whole
|Dynamic|Style:mf|Pos:-8|Justify:Center|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose
|Ending|Endings:2,4
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-3
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Bar
|Spacer|Width:50
|Bar
|RestMultiBar|NumBars:10|PrintOnce:N|WhenHidden:ShowBars,ShowRests
|Ending|Endings:2|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose
|Ending|Endings:4|Visibility:Never
|Dynamic|Style:mf|Pos:-8|Justify:Right
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th,Staccato|Pos:-2
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Thinking Through Flow

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
E.G. for each time through that an instrument is silent you have a hidden special ending for that time through that has a hidden ppp dynamic, and each time the instrument plays you have another hidden special ending that has the correct dynamic (still hidden).
A hidden ppp? Well, it's very soft but still audible.
Why not a multipoint controller with expression = 0 (and later, when you want to hear it, 127)?

Re: Thinking Through Flow

Reply #5 –
Quote from: Flurmy –
A hidden ppp? Well, it's very soft but still audible.
Why not a multipoint controller with expression = 0 (and later, when you want to hear it, 127)?
The hidden ppp is much easier, AND it is near enough inaudible as to make no practical difference.  At least that's how it's been in my scores.  The other, non ppp, instruments significantly over power it.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Thinking Through Flow

Reply #6 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
The hidden ppp is much easier, AND it is near enough inaudible as to make no practical difference.  At least that's how it's been in my scores.  The other, non ppp, instruments significantly over power it.
You can also change the Dynamic property of the ppp to Change Channel Volume = 0, so it won't sound at all. (Unfortunately, you can't set Custom Note Velocity to 0, since that corresponds to "note off")

Re: Thinking Through Flow

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Mike Shawaluk –
<snip> (Unfortunately, you can't set Custom Note Velocity to 0, since that corresponds to "note off")
But you can set it to 1...   ;)
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Thinking Through Flow

Reply #8 –
You remembered me of an old cartoon that showed a pianist who, in a pppp passage, just lifted a poster with the notes...  :))