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Topic: Lyrics problem or a lyrics workaround - take your pick. (Read 1428 times) previous topic - next topic

Lyrics problem or a lyrics workaround - take your pick.
One of the Schubert files I have been working on has seven verses within a repeat. It then goes onto two verses within another repeat.

The problem comes when you try to reduce the boundary offset (for printing purposes) when moving from the seven verse repeat to the two verse repeat.

Lyric_example_1.nwc is a mockup of the relevant area of the file. As you can see from a print preview, page 2 looks a bit of a waste of space. So why not reduce the boundaries of the Lyric staff?

Lyric_example_2 has the lower boundary of the lyric staff reduced from 38 to 16 to deal with this. However, look at a print preview to see what happens to the second page where the reduction takes place. The remaining lyrics are pushed upwards into the staff. They can't be re-adjusted since there is no Lyric readjustment in the boundary change box. Clearly, this is of no use to print out.

So, the next thought was to have the lyrics for page two onwards on their own staff and to layer the staff. Lyric_example_3 has this option. A print preview confirms that this now works as expected. BUT, look at the second page in viewer mode or the editor rather than print preview.  You will see that these lyrics are now positioned alongside verses 6 and 7 rather than alongside verses 1 and 2. At best this is a "will do". But can I get the best of both worlds ?

Well, the answer is reduce the lower vertical boundary of the lyrics staff, as if there were no lyrics at all on that staff, (so that the lyrics do not fit in the boundary space), but then to increase the upper vertical boundary size for the staff below the lyrics staff to account for this reduction. The difference here is that on this staff, since there are no lyrics, when you come to reduce the boundary for the second page, the lyrics do not jump to a different position since they are not on a staff that is having a boundary changed. Lyric_example_4 shows this solution. You will see that print preview looks as would be expected and also the viewer mode and editor mode show the page two lyrics where they should be.

Having found this workaround (other solutions welcomed), it still would be better to have this fixed such that if you reduce a boundary for a staff that has lyrics, the lyrics position is recalculated such that the top line of lyrics is positioned with respect to the underside of the lyrics staff or provide a lyrics adjustment feature within the boundary change dialog box in the same way that there is one in the lyrics configuration dialog box.

Re: Lyrics problem or a lyrics workaround - take your pick.
Reply #1
The way I have done this in the past (when 2 sections of a staff have differing numbers of verses) are to move the verses for the "lesser number of verses" section to the highest numbered verses that are active, and adjust the lower staff boundary for that part of the staff, as you did for example 2.  I'm attaching an "example 5" version of your score that shows how I do this.


Re: Lyrics problem or a lyrics workaround - take your pick.
Reply #2
Hi Mike,

Looks rather like option 3.
Two problems with that !
1.  as in option 3, the second page verses are in the wrong position - they should be on the top line (in the viewer and in the editor).
2. the red chase notes highlighting the lyrics no longer work for this option , when it gets to the second page.
(Yes, I want everything !)

Thanks for the thought.


Re: Lyrics problem or a lyrics workaround - take your pick.
Reply #3
I agree with the topic parent message, that it would be desirable for the boundary change object to be able to be able to either change the number of effective lyric lines, or to adjust the lyric offset (either of which would accomplish the same thing.)

What I'd also REALLY like would be a way for the Viewer to dynamically change the staff boundary/spacing when it encounters boundary change objects. Maybe even show/hide staves. But that is probably a lot to ask for.

(See, you're not the only one who wants it all :) )


Re: Lyrics problem or a lyrics workaround - take your pick.
Reply #4
My approach is to treat lyrics like voices. Put them on their own staff.

When it comes to changing boundaries, it becomes a simple matter of reserving enough space so that the lyrics do not clash with the music above or below them. If you need to center choruses and get them to highlight properly during playback, this is the only method I have found that works.

In the attachment, it takes 27 positions to accommodate seven verses. Reducing to two lyrics requires 8 (27/7 * 2 = 7.7) Not a lot of thought needed.

This also has the advantage that you can remove the lyrics from contents when you want to concentrate on editing the music.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Lyrics problem or a lyrics workaround - take your pick.
Reply #5
I kinda thought that you would have a perfectly good alternative solution to the problem. Thank you.
I like it.  I shall stuff it away in the old grey stuff for future use.

I think it might need a bit of thought by many not so experienced users to figure it out the different aspects of your solution.

So that's two solutions that work.  :)  I would still prefer that the recalculation for boundary changes took into account lyrics where the occur on the staff being re-sized.