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Topic: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music (Read 13762 times) previous topic - next topic

An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

I have an idea for NoteWorthy Composer that I discovered
while using Electronic Arts(TM) Deluxe Music Construction
Set [DMCS],(C) 1988. It allowed me to enter notes in a way
which I have not seen before or since:

1. Upon pressing down the mouse button, the mouse pointer
became a small bar representing the note to be entered,
and the speaker played it immediately.

2. The note could be dragged up and down the scale while the
mouse button stayed pressed, and the speaker would reflect
the note's pitch at each position.

3. Once the mouse button was released, the note would be
officially entered and displayed as such.

I took this feature for granted while I could use the Mac
the program was written for (newer Macs crash when they load
DMCS), but when I tried to use any other composing software,
including NoteWorthy, I found that I was unable to generate
the kind of quality music I could with the old DMCS. I
found it much easier to follow the flow of notes when I
could hear what I was doing at each note entry as opposed to
just listening to playback over and over again. While I can
link a written note to a location on the keyboard, albeit
with some difficulty, I am unable to make the connection
between either and the resulting sound. DMCS's unique note
entry scheme does that for me, and its inclusion into NoteWorthy would substantially increase the value of
NoteWorthy, at least for me.

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #1 –
Quite a few sequencers allow this, e.g. Cubasis and Cakewalk. For myself, personally, I found the mouse entry method niggly and frustrating, greatly preferring the NWC spproach of direct keyboard entry. However I do like the idea of the note being sounded. I think my preference would be to have the option of having the note sounded upon entry, or when moving it with CNTL/SHIFT up/down.

The other difficulty is with long notes, e.g. halves and wholes. One nuisance about Cubasis is that it plays the whole length of the note every time you mouse-move it or sweep it with the brush tool. Maybe just a little "bip" would be better so you can hear the pitch without having to wait out the full duration.

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #2 –
I like this idea of holding down the mouse button and positioning the note on the screen, then releasing the button. I agree the sound would be nice but should be optional, and a "bip" would be better than sounding the duration, which I also imagine would be frustrating!

I think I would only want NWC to offer this function as long as you could hold down the CTRL key and enter chords this way, too, to minimize jumping back and forth from PC keyboard to mouse.

However, having said this, one of the things I really appreciate about NWC is that virtually everything can be done straight from the PC keyboard. I rarely have to jump back and forth between mouse and keyboard, and this is a real timesaver.

What say all you NWC'ers? Is there something in these ideas that we should add to the wish list?

Sue

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #3 –
My experience is...Keyboard is a HUNDRED times faster...
This suggestion can be an optional feature.
- Sam

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #4 –
When I used Cakewalk, I liked the drag and position for notes, but now I really like the arrow method. I would vote for the mouse drag if it was an option I could enable. I would not want it to become the only way to enter notes (to the exclusion of a synth, of course.)
Gordon

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #5 –
Of course the audio feedback should be option: I just need
the option. The mouse/keyboard debate is interesting, but
the audio feedback (preferably in MIDI, and long enough to
interpret) is the most critical element.

BTW, the Deluxe Music Construction set has yet another note
entry scheme: a virtual piano. Click on a key, and DMCS
sounds the note, with an option to enter the note in the
score, accidentals and all. A neat option for those without
a separate MIDI keyboard or the know-how to link it to the
sequencer software.

David Wallace

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #6 –
I used to use MCS, and as I recall, you could choose between the mouse and the keyboard when placing notes - or at least when moving them. I agree that hearing the note when entering it would be a good option - how about it?

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #7 –
I am inclined on preffering things as they are. Less experienced musicians like me benefit form listening to the playback of the whole bar, as this indicates acoustically too the flow of the melody and the chords, whereas it provides an acoustical verification of the harmony between the note inputed and the notes playing at that beat.
However if people like this, taking both sides into account, such a function could be activated by the tools/options... command. This would have both sides satisfied

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #8 –
Ooooh Ooooh Ooooh! I *like* the idea of a virtual keyboard! Just click on the notes and have them entered into the staff. Especially if there was a toggle for chord entry -- so you could "hold down" multiple keys, then release them all at once. And sound as an option.

Great idea! Is it worth it to everybody?

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #9 –
Sue, there is a small program called piano.exe (and piano.drv) that turns any PC-keyboard into a pseudo-organ keyboard. (I think it was written for Win3.0 in 1991, but is still usable)
Theoritically, you can even use it as a midi keyboard as external keyboard, but I've never found out how to configure it along with NWC to make this pair of programs work correctly.

P.S. The program I'm speaking of is NOT piano.zip, 31kb, that you can find on the net, containing only piano.exe + piano.dll)

Ask me for the program (it is a "cardware") if you want to try it (I don't have it here, only at home)

HTH, Dominique

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #10 –
DMCS was one of the easiest composers around in my own opinion, even for the amateur. Its a pity though, I haven't seen one for the PC. I could do with it right now.

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #11 –
I had marsu send me the piano.exe program as offered, and find it quite a viable option for people who don't have a piano keyboard... except that it doesn't seem to work with NWC. Further info: "Midi Monitor" works with it, showing it as a valid midi input. Cakewalk does NOT work with it, giving a similar error (can't load driver) as NWC. However, the Steinberg "Cubase" programs are perfectly content with it.

For those with access to the newsgroup, I've posted it there in a thread called "virtual piano" in case anyone out there has the technical expertise to figure this out.

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #12 –
I finally found out some information on Piano.exe + pianodrv.drv.
By using this link : http://www.savvysearch.com/search?q you'll get 5 answers, and in 1st one you'll learn that piano2.0 doesn't work with CakeWalk, but 2.1 does :-)
You can find it at http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/packages/ultrasound/util/windows/00Index or http://wuarchive.wustl.edu/packages/ultrasound/util/windows/piano21.zip :-)

HTH, Mad

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #13 –
Ah, marsu, I could kiss you (on _both_ cheeks!) :-) Not only does piano.exe V2.1 work with Cakewalk, it also works with NWC! Hurrah! Note to Win3.x users: use the direct Piano Midi In port, it doesn't like it if you go through a multiple midi driver like multimid.

Have any Win9x users tried this out?

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #14 –
> Have any Win9x users tried this out?

We installed and used the 2.1 version on Windows 95 and Windows 98. It interworked with the 32-bit edition of NWC without any apparent problems. We were able to use it do do real-time recording of a simple piece using the computer keyboard.

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #15 –
How do you install piano21.exe on Win98? The readme file gives instructions for win3.1 installation.

TIA

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #16 –
From read.me file:
PIANO v2.1 - Special Notes
--------------------------
           3-Nov-1993
Installation:
   - unzip/copy Piano files somewhere on your disk
   - add PIANO.EXE to your favorite program group using Program Manager's File/Add command
=> on win9*, select the piano.exe file, use Shift+F10 (or right click), select "create a shortcut", and move this latter into the "program" folder of the "start menu" in Windows.
- install 'Piano MIDI Driver' using Control Panel: Drivers/Add/Unlisted or updated/Browse/select Piano's directory...
=> the same, or via the "add a new program" item in the menu Start/Applications.

Sorry but I'm not sure of how names are in US english of Windows, hope this helps anyway.

Marsu

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #17 –
I just got around to trying the Virtual Piano again. I still can't get it to work. Here's what I've got:

1. Shortcut created to PIANO.EXE
2. Couldn't do anything with PIANODRV.DRV. Tried going through "add new programs" applet in control panel. Did not add any new drivers to my system.
3. Start up PIANO, supposed to hear something (according to message at bottom), can't hear anything.
4. Start up NWC, new blank score, set MIDI input active.
5. NWC Tools, options, Record Tab. Only "input device" listed is SB Live MIDI In, so I select that. Only device listed for "echo input to play device" is A: SB Live MIDI Synth, so I select that. I've tried checking/unchecking the "echo MIDI input" box, and have tried "echo to MIDI channel" set to original, and various channels.
6. When in NWC, and I press zsdcfv etc. keys on keyboard, all it does is activate various NWC commands associated with those keys. No MIDI input to the blank staff at all.

OK, what am I doing wrong. Some of you have this working on Win98? Please let me know specific steps, if you would. Thanks as always!

Sue

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #18 –
I went through the newsgroup's messages and found the thread on Virtual Piano. Duh! Fred already covered the problem I posted above:

"The disadvantage to both [virtual piano programs] is that you can't do step recording in NWC. Reason is that both progs (NWC and the virtual pianos) require that the focus be on the program in order to work."

OK, "live" instead of memorex it will have to be. If anyone knows of a Virtual Piano that can be used in step mode, please let me know. Thanks!

Sue

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #19 –
Sue,

I strongly disagree with Fred: I finally made Piano 2.1 work on my Win95/Win3.11 systems, so I don't think this would be impossible on Win98. But we never can be sure with µ$... *sigh*

Anyway, if you want to install the pianodrv.drv , you also need to have oemsetup.inf in the same directory you specify to your installation procedure. This worked for me in both 3.11 and 95 systems, and is more detailed in the same thread you refer to (look at the post signed marsu)

If you do not have sound starting Piano, may be a problem. Check that the "local echo" is on in Piano (I think it's off though, when I use it to record in NWC).

When pressing F4 in NWC, Piano.exe (which is already started) comes in front, and you just have to play along the existing score; I use at least a "metronome", at a slow tempo, to avoid too high precision to be required, especially when starting to use Piano.exe. I even play without the key signature, i.e. just accidentals, since with a cut and paste it's corrected automatically. Sounds strange though!!! But more easy to play.

I won't have much time at home to check my conf. since I'm looking for a job, but I'll try to give more details on the midi devices I used; I think I do not use Midi mapper at all, but Voyetra (on an SB16) on both.

Hope this helps (do not forget the news),

Dominique

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #20 –
I like the piano.exe

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #21 –
Here is how we installed the piano21.zip utility program in Windows 98.

1. Install PIANO21.ZIP into a program folder. We
installed it into the folder c:\apps\piano21\.

2. Open an Explorer window and navigate to c:\windows

3. Open the SYSTEM.INI in NOTEPAD

4. Go down to the [drivers] section and look for existing entries of the form "midi#=nnnnnnnn.drv", where # is a number and nnnnnnn represents a driver file name. Take note of the highest number for #.

5. Add the following entry to the [drivers] section:
>
> midi#=c:\apps\piano21\pianodrv.drv
>
for example, our entry is:
>
> midi3=c:\app\piano21\pianodrv.drv
>

6. Save the SYSTEM.INI file

7. Reboot

8. Run the PIANO.EXE and all should be well

Note that you use these instructions at your own risk. Note also that the PIANO.EXE program will open the MIDI Mapper, probably making it unavailable for use in NWC.

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #22 –
Turn off Options | Local Echo to allow the MIDI Mapper to be used in NWC.

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #23 –
In response to certain features found on different versions
of composing software, one must understand you get what you pay for. All the main brands of sequencing and composing programs usually have common midi and digital functions, as do most mid-level soundcards and pro i/o cards. Entry level soundcards and most shareware programs do not have the programming for enhanced interfacing. If you are serious about composing, invest a few bucks and get a decent soundcard, keyboard and composing software that takes full advantage of the computers capability.

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #24 –
Note to Noteworthy, this feature would greatly enhance the value of your software :-)

Hearing notes while you enter them is the next best thing to playing and recording them in real time.  Cakewalk had them.  But Noteworthy gave me a lot more freedom in note placement.  So I stuck with Noteworthy for creating the first draft of practically all my compositions.  I still do to this day.  But this feature would be a great bonus for those of us who's been with Noteworthy all these years.

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #25 –
...for those of us who's been with...
...for those of us who've been with...

Re: An old and, sadly, forgotten way to enter music

Reply #26 –
Noteworthy 2 does have this feature - check out the preview.