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Topic: Breath mark (Read 7198 times) previous topic - next topic

Breath mark

Eric and any NWC user,
I'd like to have your opinion about breath marks.
In classical music a breath mark doesn't alter the tempo (i.e. it does not induces extra time to breathe indeed), rather you have to cut off the previous note (making a quarter become somewhat a dotted eight).
In NWC if you specify a duration (Delay), the effect is to act is if you add a Fermata just AFTER the note.

Is it normal ? I mean is this understood like that by any musician ??? Eric, Andrew, your opinion would be greatly appreciated :-)

NWCly yours,
                      MAD (HRU (HappyReg'dUser :-)))

Re: Breath mark

Reply #1 –
In NWC, you can specify a delay for the breath mark, but this is, in fact, completely optional (in some performances, it is accurate to have a delay over and above the tempo). You cannot get the breath mark to steal time from the note that preceeds it, so the delay is your only choice in this case.

Re: Breath mark

Reply #2 –
OK, so fundamentally the comma type breath mark is there either to prevent total lung collapse of the performers, be they singers or wind players, or to indicate a slight pause in the flow of music. The more formal fermata extends the note to which it is attached. But unless the delay time is specified, it is very much up to the individual conductor or solo performer how they interpret the instruction. Sometimes as marsu points out strict tempo is maintained, but conversely the music may come to a complete halt. It very much depends on the mood of the music and the requirements of the performers.

Re: Breath mark

Reply #3 –
I have seen fermata over both notes and bar lines (don't know how they'd go over barlines in NWC, never tried it). In NWC, I use breath marks if I want a pause at the end of the bar, or I tweak the tempo. I think that interpretation of tempo is normally left up to performer, and this would include pauses after breath marks. I hear that in shakuhachi playing, whilst every note must be played, the length of each note and the timing between them is totally up to the player, though I expect there are guidelines.

Andrew

Re: Breath mark

Reply #4 –
Just tried it. They're not at the place they should, I think : over the bar line (not preserving width of course). Should I add this to the wish list, or is there another list for bugs ?

Dominique

P.S. What is shakuhachi ?? I think it is a bamboo japanese flute, but ain't sure. As a flutist, I'd be interested in that subject :-)

Re: Breath mark

Reply #5 –
In every single music theory lesson I ever had, a pause (fermata) can only happen over either a rest or a note. A bar line in realistic terms is just a seperater to make music easier to read. If you have seen a pause over a bar line, it was probably meant to be over a rest of some sort. Sometimes I get a semi breve (whole note) rest with a pause over a bar line, when it is actually meant to be over a cotchet or quaver rest. I guess the transcriber was just lazy. (I must point out that I do this occasionally myself:-)
Adam

Re: Breath mark

Reply #6 –
Another thing about breath marks vs. fermatas: with a
multi-staff score, you have to assign the same duration
value to each fermata in the given point in the staff,
otherwise the parts won't all be delayed in sync. And if
you have the fermatas at different points (e.g. one staff
has a whole note and another has two half notes, and you
want to place the fermata over the first note in the
measure), it doesn't work. I've had to change whole notes
to tied half notes, for example, to get this to work.

Breath marks, on the other hand, work cumulatively. If you
want a delay of 1, you have to put it on exactly one of the
breath marks and leave the others as zero.

So why do fermata delays and breath mark delays work
differently from one another?

Re: Breath mark

Reply #7 –
I think that fermatas work cumulatively too. Just checked it, and they act as breath marks do.

MAD

P.S. I always affect a duration to only ONE fermat/b.mark. This avoids strange things to happen, and is simpler to manage. Even when you play only one staff, the f/b.m. on other staves have an effect with their own values.

Re: Breath mark

Reply #8 –
Breath marks and farmata delays work identically. Neither delay should be specified more than once for the same point in a song, since the effect is cumulative. Use a zero values where appropriate. If you have two half notes in one staff, and a whole note in another, each with a fermata, asssign the actual fermata delay to the part that accurately represents where the delay should occur (one the second half note, for example).

In extreme cases, you can always move your tempo control to another hidden staff and control tempo changes without altering the appearance of your actual scores.

Re: Breath mark

Reply #9 –
Fermata over bar lines:

I've seen these over DOUBLE bar lines. My understanding is that this notation is used in two (similar) ways.

a) as an alternative to a Fine marking

b) to indicate an optional pause between movements.

Use a) is often used in marches where space is at a premium on march cards. The double bar with a fermata is where you stop after the Da Capo.

Use b) is often seen between movements of old waltzes. I suppose the idea is to let the old waltzers get their breath back beteween movements :)