Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

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Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

2005-11-29 04:15 pm

As a loyal customer and NoteWorthy advocate for many years I am disgusted that I have been dumped, along with all the other UK customers who bought pre-2005 and would therefore have bought from PDSL. Note that when I bought, it was NOT POSSIBLE to buy direct from NoteWorthy and I was DIRECTED to go to PDSL in order to upgrade my downloaded evaluation copy to a full (or so I thought) version. I now find that while a US customer who bought at the same time as me has the right to download version 2.0, I must buy a new copy of 1.75 first. Are NoteWorthy comfortable with this situation??? Is it honouring the spirit of shareware?

Re: Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

Reply #1 – 2005-11-29 05:20 pm

I can't answer that (I'm just an ordinary user). But I went back and looked at the NWC2 preview requirements, and it seems that the sticking point is the "purchased directly from NWC" part. Yet it is more than that: The user must actually have the necessary CD placed in the CD-ROM drive. My understanding is that NWC does not want the preview to run amok amongst those who are not even entitled to be using NWC1.

The thing to do: Ask NWC by E-mail. There seem to be some UK users of 2. In fact, some of the most prominent and contributory users of NWC have historically come from English-speaking nations other than the U.S.A.

Re: Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

Reply #2 – 2005-11-29 09:37 pm

Holland is no problem area. I have bought 1.75, back in March 2002. I am using NWC2.

Re: Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

Reply #3 – 2005-11-29 10:35 pm

G'day John,
umm, could you enlighten me a bit please? Did PDSL (whoever they are) not supply you with the CD?

I have no idea what the arrangements for the UK were but I would think that since NWC have been sending CDs out for at least the 3 1/2 years I've been using the product then I would think this PDSL mob should also have.

If they should have but didn't your real beef should probably be with them. The requirement is that you have a 1.75 CD. This is because the NWC2 install requires files from that CD and you can't install without it.

I imagine this is deliberate in order to prevent bootleg copies of NWC2 getting out there. It isn't a finished product at this stage, although it's pretty damn good!

Lawrie

Re: Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

Reply #4 – 2005-11-30 02:39 am

PDSL stands for Public Domain Software Library. Its site is at http://www.pdsl.com/ and there are a couple of notes about NWC.

Re: Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

Reply #5 – 2005-11-30 08:47 am

It's true, UK customers were being *advised* to buy via PDSL. I took one look at their website and decided to ignore that advice. (The PDSL website has improved since then, though not much).
I purchased the full version from NWC just over two years ago, contacting NWC directly.
There weren't any problems, apart from a delay of a couple of weeks by the Customs dept. in London.

Re: Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

Reply #6 – 2005-11-30 08:50 am

Sorry, i should have added that the two week delay is not normal. This was following some sort of postal strike !

Re: Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

Reply #7 – 2005-11-30 09:10 am

G'day David and Frank,
thanks for the enlightenment, but I still don't know if PDSL were supposed to supply CDs.

This appears to be John's real problem. Though even then, I note the No.1 eligibility requirement...

In light of my lack of information, I will hazard a guess...

The purchase from PDSL did not, and was not supposed to, include a CD. Thus the requirement for a direct purchase from NWC where a CD would have been forthcoming.

Easy, though perhaps unwelcome, answer: purchase the upgrade/replacement package. $15 US probably only just covers production, administration and postage costs anyway...

If my guess is correct, then I can understand your frustration John. Perhaps this is indicative of why the PDSL contract wasn't renewed. I would guess there were administrative difficulties that made it unproductive or not cost effective for PDSL to ship CDs or for NWC to ship CDs for licences sold through PDSL.

The directive for you to purchase through PDSL may have been a contractual obligation... I don't know how long the contract lasted, perhaps it predated CD shipments - you realise, of course, I'm now "talking through my hat". However, I don't believe that NWC would have deliberately attempted to disenfranchise you.

Lawrie

Re: Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

Reply #8 – 2005-11-30 10:45 am

A 'solution' that does not involve traditional mail, let alone customs, would be:
Sending party:
- Create a disc image, using Nero
- Post this image using www.yousendit.com
Receiving party:
- Get disc image
- Burn disk, using Nero
and henceforth Happy Noteworthy-ing.
But it may be a bit far-fetched.

Re: Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

Reply #9 – 2005-11-30 10:51 am

I'm in the U.K. and I also bought nwc from PDSL ( a floppy disc) back in '98. I upgraded from the NW site for several years.
I may be mistaken but I believe the original purchase of 1.5x allowed free upgrades of the 1.5 series. When NW released version 1.7 (I think) one had to register in order to download it. (Still without charge)
The PDSL receipt number was accepted as proof of purchase.
With the release of the preview NWC2 it was, as has already been said, necessary to have the nwc 1.75b CD because there are files on that needed to run NWC2.

Anyone who bought from PDSL and been upgrading from the NoteWorthy site ever since have had more than their moneys worth and should not really complain at paying a little more for the excellent support of an excellent product like NWC.

Other software companies charge for every new version / upgrade.

That's my tuppence worth.

Tina

Re: Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

Reply #10 – 2005-11-30 11:24 am

As a postscript to the foregoing, I purchased NWC as CD from the States some years back, paying the normal price. The CD was intercepted by British Customs, a hefty duty slapped on it and given back to the Post Office who then added their own charges for collecting and administering the collection of the duty. This almost doubled the cost, but my complaints were answered by the simple statement that it was all within the legal rules.
It seems that if you order a CD from the States there is always a chance that UK Customs will pick it up and charge duty on it. And No, I don't understand it either.

Tony

Re: Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

Reply #11 – 2005-11-30 12:45 pm

I bought version 1.5-something on floppy disk direct from NWC however-many years ago, and subsequently paid for a CD of version 1.7, both of which were sent from the USA by post. The first disk had a label on, saying VAT was due on the item, but the postman made no attempt at collecting it. The CD didn't even have a duty label on it, so I guess I've been lucky.

Robin

Re: Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

Reply #12 – 2005-12-01 12:27 am

PDSL were the official UK distributors, and the only legal way to buy NoteWorthy, for many years - sorry folks, but if you bought direct from NoteWorthy.com you bought a "grey import". I did the correct thing and bought from PDSL - I have the CD in front of me, Version 1.75, Copyright 2002. Sadly it doesn't qualify me for the NWC 2 upgrade path - I've tried.

Call me old-fashioned, or even mean, but I DO object to paying for the same software twice! Yes, other companies, notably MicroSoft, DO have evilly-expensive upgrade paths; that's why Bill Gates gets, and deserves, more than his fair share of pies in his face. I just thought that NoteWorthy were better than that...

Re: Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

Reply #13 – 2005-12-01 12:58 am

Hi John,
OK, bad guess on my part - you got a CD.

I can only speculate but I'm sure there is a perfectly logical underlying reason. Perhaps something to do with the practicalities of establishing the legality of the copy of 1.75.

Maybe PDSL's record keeping wasn't satisfactory and so NWC had to take steps that would otherwise have been out of character.

I'm certainly sure they would not want bootleg copies of pre-beta code making the rounds! I'm quite confident that it is not simply greed.

Lawrie

Re: Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

Reply #14 – 2005-12-01 04:40 am

If NWC wants to explain its actions, it is fully capable of doing so, but it might not want to do so in this forum.

John, I gather you want to continue to use NWC or upgrade to version 2. Why don't you write directly to support@noteworthysoftware.com and see what they have to say?

Having said that, I recall that some time ago, someone hacked version 1.7 or 1.75 and was selling or otherwise distributing it. To combat this, NWC developed the current system. This seems to have happened in early 2003 according to http://www.noteworthysoftware.com/news/19.htm and seems to generally work fairly well. There will always be exceptions.

NWC's actions to combat theft of its intellectual property and copyright infringment were reasonable. I suspect the change made it physically difficult to market through legitimate third parties such as PDSL. Since comments on PDSL itself suggest its business was morphing into a part time business, it probably just made good business sense to terminate the relationship when the contract was up for renegotiation.

My two cents worth. Probably not worth even that!

Re: Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

Reply #15 – 2005-12-01 02:15 pm

I did indeed write directly to Support, but receiving no reply for over week, I raised the topic on this forum. Strange to say, today I received a reply... I copy the gist of this mail, and my responses to it, below:

---------------------------------------------

- We have not dropped support or abandoned those who purchased NWC1 from PDSL.

When I click on Help->Support I am directed towards my "Authorized Dealer" PDSL. However PDSL are no longer an authorised dealer, and they are not being helpful on NoteWorthy issues.

- Although it is not really relevant to the heart of your complaint, Noteworthy Software has always accepted direct orders from the UK. There was never a requirement for UK customers to purchase from PDSL, although it is certainly understandable that you chose to do so.

This is news to me! It's more than two years ago, but my recollection is that I tried to upgrade online from the evaluation copy, but was told that this was not possible, and was directed towards PDSL.

In the UK we get this ALL THE TIME, for material purchases as well as software; the US company refuses to deal with you direct, citing customs problems or copyright issues, but really they mean that they can't be bothered with international customers. We're forced to deal with an authorised distributor who then rips us off, typically charging more UKP than we would've paid USD!

- Any NWC purchase prior to version 1.75, or purchased from PDSL, has the option to buy the (USD $15) NWC upgrade/replacement package...

In other words, folk who did what you advised them to do and bought 1.75 from PDSL are now second-class customers, and need to pay twice for the same product in order to bring them up to the same status as US customers...even though we probably paid more in the first place.

Re: Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

Reply #16 – 2005-12-01 10:28 pm

That is indeed a bummer. When I lived in Canada, I used to be annoyed by prices on U.S. manufactured goods (in those days, they existed) at twice the price in Canada, even allowing for exchange rates.

I made up for it by developing a taste for French wine, which was not taxed in Canada (but was taxed in the U.S.).

Re: Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

Reply #17 – 2005-12-09 12:29 pm

I looked on this forum for help over why my sound has gone after 2 months, and the Mute icon constantly shows the loudspeaker off, whatever I do. Instead, I found a description of my own experience of delays with Customs and Post Office charges (3 week delay, and no strikes recently,and I had to drive a round trip of 20 miles to get it.)
That beef over, can anyone help over the constant Mute?

Re: Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

Reply #18 – 2005-12-09 03:28 pm

Have you tried going to Tools / mute list and click "Play all"?
You should just be able to toggle the mute icon.

Or is it something else?

Tina

Re: Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

Reply #19 – 2005-12-11 10:22 am

Anne,
Try starting a new thread - maybe the title is a bit misleading for your problem. Others may have suggestions.

Have you checked the system sound settings?
In Programs, Accessories, Entertainment, there should be a shortcut to %SystemRoot%\system32\sndvol32.exe .
Is anything muted there that should not be muted?
Rob.

Re: Why has NoteWorthy dumped its UK customers??

Reply #20 – 2005-12-28 12:30 pm

To go back to the original thread and to respond to John Hinsley.

I purchased my first nwc (v1.55) from PDSL. However ever since I have dealt directly with nwc in the US either via download, or CD and have never had any problems in my dealings with them.

The only problem I had was having duty levied by HM Customs which you have to accept, but what I did object to was the Post Office's fee for paying the duty which I thought unreasonable.

Geoff