Slurring and beaming between staffs

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Slurring and beaming between staffs

2004-11-28 06:38 pm

Since the forum restricts each posting to a maximum of two notation clips, this message is in 2 parts.

PART 1:

In the version 1 forum, Vlaera asked:
"Is it possible to slur and Beam eighth notes that carry from left hand to right hand?"

In version 2 it can be done with a hidden staff, invisible noteheads, zero length stems and some hidden notes. I don't think it can be done in version 1. If you're a pianist, this would be a very good reason to upgrade to the Version 2 public preview.

Sample:
Open a new piano template file. Add an extra staff using Ctrl-A, and move it up (Ctrl-PgUp) so it's between the left and right hand staffs.

On the top staff, enter this:

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:-13z|Opts:Slur=Upward,StemLength=0,NoLegerLines
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:-11z|Opts:Slur=Upward,StemLength=0,NoLegerLines
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:-9z|Opts:Slur=Upward,StemLength=0,NoLegerLines
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Upward,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Upward,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Upward,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=8,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

On the new second staff, enter this:

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-13z|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,StemLength=0,NoLegerLines
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-11z|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,StemLength=0,NoLegerLines
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-9z|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,StemLength=0,NoLegerLines
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-6z|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,StemLength=0,NoLegerLines
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-4z|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2z|Opts:Stem=Up,Slur=Upward,StemLength=0
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1z|Opts:Stem=Up,StemLength=0
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Re: Slurring and beaming between staffs

Reply #1 – 2004-11-28 06:39 pm

PART 2:

and copy this to the left hand, i.e., bottom, staff:

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Bass
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:8|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:10|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:13|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Go to the centre staff and set its properties (with F2) to Layer With Next Staff.

Turn on the toggle to Allow Layering (View menu)

Re: Slurring and beaming between staffs

Reply #2 – 2004-11-28 06:44 pm

PART 2 - CORRECTION:

and copy this to the left hand, i.e., bottom, staff:

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Bass
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Always
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:8|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:10|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:13|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Go to the centre staff and set its properties (with F2) to Layer With Next Staff.

Turn on the toggle to Allow Layering (View menu)

Now look at the result in Print Preview. Hopefully it will show the tie and slur running from one staff to the other.

Re: Slurring and beaming between staffs

Reply #3 – 2004-11-29 05:46 pm

Is there a more simple way of explaining what is to be done? These instructions look very complicated to some one who merely enters notes with cursor and up/down keys
Tony

Re: Slurring and beaming between staffs

Reply #4 – 2004-11-29 10:21 pm

I can't think of a simpler way than the 10 steps I wrote, but don't be discouraged. Maybe this will help a bit.

-Ctrl-A means press the control key at the same time as the A key.
-Ctrl-PgUp means press the control key at the same time as the Page Up key.
"with F2" means use the F2 command to do the step
"Allow layering" can be set from either the File/Page Setup option, or from the View menu. To get the View menu press the Alt key and then the letter V.

To copy the stuff in the coloured boxes, just move into the first box, do whatever it takes to copy the entire contents of that box onto your clipboard, then go to the song file and paste the sample into the indicated staff. Do the same with the other box.

Print Preview is done by clicking on the print preview icon (looks like a page with a folded corner, with a magnifying glass lying on it) or pressing Alt-F then V.

Re: Slurring and beaming between staffs

Reply #5 – 2004-11-29 10:28 pm

David,

Don't you mean this for the top staff?

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:-13z|Opts:Slur=Upward,StemLength=0,NoLegerLines
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:-11z|Opts:Slur=Upward,StemLength=0,NoLegerLines
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:-9z|Opts:Slur=Upward,StemLength=0,NoLegerLines
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Upward|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Upward,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Upward,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=8,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Else you'll have the two beamed sets, top and bottom, overlapping.

Robin

Re: Slurring and beaming between staffs

Reply #6 – 2004-11-30 01:00 am

No, I think that leaves a break in the beam, but I wanted to achieve a continuous beam. You need to set the notehead type to blank, and use StemLength=0,NoLegerLines|Color:0|Visibility:Always
instead of setting the common note to Visibility:Never.

It probably would make more sense if I put the right number of notes in the bar, and if I'd used 16th notes. We'd need to tinker a bit with vertical staff size and stem lengths to get those lining up properly but it's probably achievable.

I don't know how I missed the double printing of middle C, thanks for pointing it out.

Two questions for you, Robin:
Do you think the "new second staff" that I suggested is needed?
Have you checked to see if it makes a difference to have the special settings for the fourth note in the lowest staff or the fourth note in the highest staff? I used the lowest staff, but not for any particular reason.

My computer is going to be down for a few days, so please don't think me rude if I don't respond to your comments right away.

Re: Slurring and beaming between staffs

Reply #7 – 2004-11-30 03:59 pm

David,

Re: Slurring and beaming between staffs

Reply #8 – 2004-11-30 04:04 pm

David,

I got the desired effect with the addition of some space above the left hand staff. And, your second go at the left hand was necessary. So, the new left hand reads thus

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Bass
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:6z|Opts:Stem=Up,StemLength=0,Beam,NoLegerLines
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:8|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:10|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:13|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End|Visibility:Never
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

At least, when I put it into print preview, it does.

Robin

Re: Slurring and beaming between staffs

Reply #9 – 2004-12-01 11:39 pm

If it is of any help you can see an example of this cross stave beaming in the Scriptorium in my transcription of Fauré's Rêve d'amour:

http://www.vpmag.com/cgi-bin/nwc/txt2html.cgi?src=classical/f/faureve.txt

The easiest example is in bar 8.
Turn layering off to see how it is done.

The last three notes are entirely on the upper RH (treble) staff but moved down into the correct positions for the LH (bass) staff. The voicing is corrected by putting an instrument patch in with a transposition up of two octaves. It will be apparent that the vertical spacing between the two staves must be correct for this to work.

If the lower staff moves between bass and treble clefs then you can use a similar technique where you wish to move between the staves when both are using the same clef. this has been done between the lower RH (treble) staff and the LH (treble) staff in bar 5. This is a little more tricky as the transposition is not two octaves but just short of four, requiring a hidden key signature change in order to get the right notes to play.

The technique was first put forward and used by Tina in the NWC2 newsgroup.

Kind regards