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Topic: Instruments and chords (Read 7072 times) previous topic - next topic

Instruments and chords

Hello everyone!

First off, I only started composing. I play guitar (from Classical to Rock) and people consider me a virtuoso. I am familiar with bass and piano, but I lack knowledge on other instruments.
I have some good ideas to compose a symphony, I already have the instrument ranges. However, I have a problem. What are the limitations of string, brass and woodwind instruments regarding chords, triads, etc. I would really love a detailed explanation on this. Could anybody help me?
Thanks,
Caesar Vane

Re: Instruments and chords

Reply #1 –
Brass and woodwinds -- just one note at a time. Strings - it helps to actually imagine (or draw out) where the chord notes would fall on the instrument itself. Violas, 'Cellos and Bass are tuned C - G - D - A, and violins are tuned G - D - A - E. So, for example, it would be impossible to play a low G and B at the same time on a violin.

Re: Instruments and chords

Reply #2 –
Double Bass is tuned E A D G (ie in 4ths)!

Re: Instruments and chords

Reply #3 –
Except that some double basses have an extension on their first string to allow them to play a full octave lower than the cello's lowest note, the C below the bass staff. Then they're tuned

C A D G

In the orchestral scores I've seen that take advantage of this, the composer will generally divide the bass part in octaves if it goes below low E, to accommodate cases where some (or all) of the basses are lacking this feature.

Re: Instruments and chords

Reply #4 –
... except that it occurs to me that a mention of double-bass tuning is more or less out of place in a discussion of chords. Double basses practically never play chords, except perhaps the occasional fifth. Usually, if a composer wants more than one note at a time out of the basses, he or she will divide them.

Re: Instruments and chords

Reply #5 –
My advice:

You should familiarize yourself with the instruments of the orchestra before writing a piece - simply knowing the range isn't going to tell you how to write for the ensemble. (ex: a horn player can play a high C [written C] but it is not a good note to repeat over and over in a melody) Listen to music that fits the genre you are composing for to give you ideas on how things can be done.

As a composition student myself, I am still learning about the scoring of the orchestra and the techniques used by the great composers. I suggest the book "Principles of Orchestration" by Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov. You can find it on Amazon.com for $18.

Re: Instruments and chords

Reply #6 –
The Rimsky-Korsakov is good, but it's more concerned with how to combine instruments effectively than it is with the capabilities of each instrument considered separately. Therefore I'd recommend the R-K as a secondary text.

To learn to write for the various instruments, I'd recommend either Walter Piston's "Orchestration" or Cecil Forsyth's "Orchestration". The Piston is about 50 years old but is still recognized as a standard textbook on the subject. The Forsyth is closer to 100 years old, but it's very entertainingly written and is available in a cheap Dover edition for about $14.

Re: Instruments and chords

Reply #7 –
Thanks a lot. Surely I'll buy the books. In the meantime, would it help to study classical scores, i.e. Mozart's horn arrangements, string quartets, and flute concerts, just to name a few examples? I'm a fast learner, you know, and I grasp everything right away. I'm very keen.

Re: Instruments and chords

Reply #8 –
All this and modesty too!

It certainly couldn't hurt to study Mozart (ever!), but his orchestration, while good, is a far cry from the type of thing possible today, and pretty limited in its use of resources. IMHO some other composers whose orchestration repays study are Schubert, Tchaikovsky, Ravel, Sibelius, and Bartok. (I'm sure others can and will chip in with their suggestions as well.)

Re: Instruments and chords

Reply #9 –
While someone early in the thread pointed out that the woodwinds and brass can only play one note it is standard practice for the orchestra to contain 2 or more of each of these instruments. It is entirely possible, therefore, for the flute SECTION to play a two note chord. Likewise for the clarinet SECTION, oboe SECTION, etc.

Re: Instruments and chords

Reply #10 –
Ah, yes. The Bass section of our choir is well-known for its elaborate chords, despite the fact that the score shows only a single note for the Basses.

Re: Instruments and chords

Reply #11 –
My Advice:

Be yourself. Sure, it may help to listen to how other composers score and blend their insturments but do what you think sounds good. i have tried to find a range of composers who compose with the style that I do but so far I can not find any yet I have won competitions for my compositions and many words of encouragement from people who are considered 'high on the musical ladder'. I believe that be yourself and what you believe sounds good. Borrow and orchestral instument and work with its effects and sounds or listen to someone else. You will find that something you will hear will inspire you e.g. a clarinet playing mid-range notes softly and gently. Also fiddle around with a computer program for composers (make sure it is good quality) and listen to how certain instument blend.

Re: Instruments and chords

Reply #12 –
I suggest that you call your local symphony and ask to talk with someone who teaches violin. If they can't help you with the limitations of this instrument no one can. Ask what they're capable of doing. Pay for a one lesson session if you have to.