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Topic: Jazz 8th notation for "classical" musicians (Read 7854 times) previous topic - next topic

Jazz 8th notation for "classical" musicians

Couldn't find the message talking about jazz 8ths.  Found this interesting tidbit tonight:

"When Leonard Bernstein wrote the score for West Side Story he knew that its concept had to be clear to everyone playing the music. In New York the orchestra was composed mainly of classical, in London mainly of jazz musicians. The jazzmen would be able to handle the straight sections, but how could he make the strings, horns, oboes and bassoons swing the jazz passages? Leaving nothing to chance, he wrote the wild, jazz–oriented Dance at the Gym in 12/8. Example 1 shows a couple of bars of it as they would normally be written for a jazz player (a), then, as Bernstein wrote it in 12/8 for the straight man (b). When played by both musicians the result was the same."

Go here for the rest of "Swing for Beginners" and a bunch of other neat stuff:

http://webdesign.magicmedia.nl/Main/technical_index.htm

Re: Jazz 8th notation for "classical" musicians

Reply #1 –
I find it interesting that the orchestra in New York was mainly classical musicians and in London, mainly Jazz musicians and not the other way round.

Geoff

Re: Jazz 8th notation for "classical" musicians

Reply #2 –
It may have been because the good guys in NY all had gigs.

I've done this too, and it works if the musicians are good readers. If you write in 12/8, and carefully notate all the ties and anticipations, you can get - let's say - 95% of the swing feel out of someone with no jazz experience. But the score looks awfully cluttered.

Re: Jazz 8th notation for "classical" musicians

Reply #3 –
That reminds me: The Beatles made their name in Germany, becuase the good guys in Liverpool all had gigs.

Re: Jazz 8th notation for "classical" musicians

Reply #4 –
Oh... I though that the Beatles made their name in Germany, because the place was already taken by the Searchers at Liverpool (a bassist singing with 3 other guys, IIRC)

So this English phenomenon would be related to Porsche's one? A chance he didn't stop at the Karmann car... It sounds not so well ;-)

Re: Jazz 8th notation for "classical" musicians

Reply #5 –
Re the Bernstein jazz 8ths discussion: The London jazz musicians could also play classical music, and the classical players in the WSS orchestra were top men from the Sinfonia of London. All good guys.
Note: Bernstein said we were better...
Question: How come my 'Swing for Beginners' article was found on the magicmedia site? It belongs to my Jazz Professional pages at http://www.jazzprofessional.com.
Ron

Re: Jazz 8th notation for "classical" musicians

Reply #6 –
I dunno how that info came from one page to the other, but there are other similarities. Check both pages!
Apparently someone doesn't know that it's not because it can be seen that it can be copied without authorization...

Re: Jazz 8th notation for "classical" musicians

Reply #7 –
Magic Media was my server when I wrote the Swing for Beginners articles. I have since discontinued using their services. There is a copyright notice on the Welcome Page of Jazz Professional that covers all articles on that website.

Reading and playing music written in 12/8 is no more difficult than playing in any other time signatures for the professional musician.

With reference to the remark that perhaps all of the good musicians in New York were working I have to add that at the time I was in the WSS orchestra I was also working full time in the London recording, film and television studios, and so were all the other players. If dates clashed with the show we sent deputies, also good musicians.
 

Re: Jazz 8th notation for "classical" musicians

Reply #8 –
I'd like to defend and/or apologise for this inconsequential remark I made almost three years ago.

It was just a joking reference to the fact that, in the late 1950s,  there may have been more work for jazz musicians in NY than there was in London, so it might have been harder to book a large group with jazz experience, depending on how much lead time they had, and so an existing ensemble of "straight" players was used. I should have said "the good jazz guys", not "the good guys" all had gigs.

No slur on the professionals of either town was intended, and in fact I was probably wrong; there were no doubt all kinds of factors affecting who could be hired for the two productions.