Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Two verses on same staff, different notes in the same measure (Read 3937 times) previous topic - next topic

Two verses on same staff, different notes in the same measure

Wasn't sure how to describe this in the subject.  Notating a song with multiple verses.  4/4 time, one measure has dotted half note and qtr rest on verse 1 but on verse 2 (same measure) has half note then 2 qtr notes.  Can I shrink the notes on the second verse and enter the lyrics for both verses such that they'll playback and print correctly for each verse?

Only other option is to score entire second verse on different measures (I can copy and paste) making the necessary change to that measure only on verse 2.

Any assistance much appreciated.

Re: Two verses on same staff, different notes in the same measure

Reply #1 –
I do this all the time, the way I get round it is to use the hyphen or underscore feature in the lyric manager, it sometimes looks a bit odd but I find it works ok.

Re: Two verses on same staff, different notes in the same measure

Reply #2 –
If you just want two versions of the verse (as it would appear in printed music) then put the first verse stem-up, then chord the second verse stem-down. So in your case the first note would be a chord stem-up dotted crotchet with a stem down crotchet followed by a stem-down stand-alone quaver, followed by a chorded stem-up and stem-down quaver.

In the first verse put an underline ( _ ) where the missing syllable occurs.

If you want to have the thing play back correctly too then it's more complicated. You have to use staff layering. Then on staff 1 put verse one with stem-up notes where the verses are different, and staff 2 with stem-down notes. Put the appropriate lyrics on the appropriate staffs. Most of the lyrics for both verses will be on staff 1, but where verse 2 is different you put underscores in staff 1 and put the lyrics on staff 2.

Ensure the two staffs are set to the same instrument/dynamic etc.

Now the clever/tricky bit. You need to insert (everything from now on invisible) a minim rest (that's the duration of the difference - quarter + 2 eighths) immediately before the difference on each staff.

On Staff 1 insert '2nd time repeat' before the minim, and a '1st time repeat' before the v1 version, then a '1st + 2nd time repeat' after it. On staff 2 it's vice versa of course.

If there are other staves then insert an '8th time repeat', minim rest, '1st + 2nd time repeat' so that the staves line up.

Simple really!

Re: Two verses on same staff, different notes in the same measure

Reply #3 –
If I understand the question correctly, you would like to have "smaller" notes denoting the different rhythm on the same staff and to have the music play the alternate rhythm on the repeat?

I sometimes sing music that has the smaller "variation" notes between verses. Can be confusing, particularly for a guitar player who doesn't know what those little black things are in any event, but the variation is a fact of life, so . . . . Generally, I just use a system of ties and lyric placement properties to denote different rhythms in different verses.

Having said that, there is really no way I am familiar with to have noteworthy play different rhythms on a second verse unless the second verse is included as a continuation (without a repeat at the end of the first verse). It may be possible to achieve the desired effect, however, by having the two variant verses on a separate "hidden" staff, and simply have the visible staff muted.

The smaller notes: Can be emulated via text expression at this time. Under page properties, simply define a user 1 font as the NWCV15 font, select, perhaps, 18 as the size, and then type in the appropriate text expression using the user 1 font (with a right justified to have the smaller notes appear before the larger notes)(also you will simply need to play with text placement to have the note appear as the correct note on the staff). You may need to play with Word or Wordperfect to find the correct keys for notes and rests. In your example, you'll find that a half note is a capital "F". Quarter note is a capital G. (dots, by the way are small "z"; eighth notes are capital "H"). You may want to prepare a list.

Unfortunately, no stem direction option is possible for "text expression" notes.

Aaack! Pretty complicated. Hope I don't send you off on a wild goose chase or unduly confuse!

Re: Two verses on same staff, different notes in the same measure

Reply #4 –
Having said that, there is really no way I am familiar with to have noteworthy play different rhythms on a second verse

I really needn't have bothered :-(

Re: Two verses on same staff, different notes in the same measure

Reply #5 –
Actually, I think there is, though the details are outside my area of knowledge.  One can have two staves with repeats, one with one set of notes, the other with the other.  Just before the open-repeat (which can be non-visible) insert an MPC which sets the volume/velocity/what-ever (see? outside my knowledge) on once staff to zero, the other to whatever the normal value is.  Then, just before the closing repeat, switch the MPCs.  Now, on the first time round the first staff will play, on the second, the second staff.  You can even get the lyrics to "light up" properly by having the first staff with an empty second lyric line (NOT a single lyric line, which will display both times) and the second staff with an empty first lyric line.

The one thing the I think is impossible, is to get the notes to "light up" as you would want them to.  You will have to make one of the staves totally non-visible (which DOESN'T blank out the lyrics) and layer them.

Re: Two verses on same staff, different notes in the same measure

Reply #6 –
Metaphysically speaking - do I exist?

The method I've taken great pains to elucidate in reply #2 lights up the notes for each verse independently, and the lyrics too. What more do you want?

Seriously chaps - please try it out before pontificating. Yes, I use layered staffs. No, I don't use MPCs. Yes, I use first and second time repeats which is precisely what you'd think ought to be used.

FWIW Fred's Magic Flute uses this method in one of the songs (where the technique first saw the light of day) to have entirely different choruses for each verse.
 

Re: Two verses on same staff, different notes in the same measure

Reply #7 –
Peter,

Was not ignoring you. Layne seemed interested in part in how to insert a "smaller size" note for the variant verses. I was more focused on that aspect. I threw in one possibility for different playbacks for different verses. Because of intervening work and interruptions in preparing my response, I did have the opportunity to see your response before entering mine.

I'm sure your approach works fine, and I'll keep it in mind for potential use in multiple verse music.