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Topic: Visibility of Clefs beyond bar 1 (Read 5599 times) previous topic - next topic

Visibility of Clefs beyond bar 1

This *has* to have been covered before - but sadly I can't find anything on it.

When I am halfway through a piece and I look at all my staves, how do I know at a glance:

a) which instrument is which, and
b) which clef they're using?

As you can imagine, not knowing this when writing music leads to frequent mistakes, as I am using the Alto, Treble and Bass Clef and obviously I need to which stave is for which instrument!

What I would like is for the Clef and instrument name to stick to the left hand side of the screen so that I always know. Without a clef, a stave is useless!

Any help would be gratefully received!

Re: Visibility of Clefs beyond bar 1

Reply #1 –
In the lower right corner of the status bar is:
[used%]Group:staff name. The Group and staff name are also in Score Review with the current staff highlighted.

You might consider using Treble, Tenor, Baritone, or Bass as your group names and the instrument as the staff name. This will cover all the situations where these don't change.

You can insert a 2 temporary "key changes" to "C". The second will show you where "G" is on each Clef. You can then delete the key changes.

In NWC2, the current instrument can always be found by pressing "i" for instrument patch.
Pressing "c" for clef is of no use as it currently defaults to the last clef entered (or treble if none).

For advanced users, it would be nice if the Clef and current key were on the status bar,  but the "mission" of Noteworthy is to be easy for the casual user.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Visibility of Clefs beyond bar 1

Reply #2 –
Thanks. That is fine for my purposes. great! :-)

Re: Visibility of Clefs beyond bar 1

Reply #3 –
Some things for the suggestions box though:

When you look at a score, if you are trying to work out if your harmonies are correct, it is usual to glance down the staves and see if your notes are all ok. In order to do this, you really do need to see the clef on the left (I regularly use three different clefs, and I think everyone uses 2 at least!). A pane on the left giving the clef would be great for this. Of course, it will also show the key :-) It's no good saying "that's the treble clef, so that must be an F, if you're in the key of G, cause it would be an F#...! I'm at work so I haven't tried this yet, but I'm guessing the way it currently works is you have to click on the stave to look at it's title on the status bar.

Also, the instrument names show on the printout but not on the screen - that'd be useful. Currently, you just have a maze of staves, with no knowledge as to which instrument is which. Again, my idea is to put this before the Clef and have a sticky clef in a pane that is always there.

Re: Visibility of Clefs beyond bar 1

Reply #4 –
Your answer is to have the ability to split the screen vertically.  I believe the suggestion has been made before.  Anyway, go to the home page, select Wish List and make your wish known there.  That way it won't get lost among a lot of messages in the forum.

Re: Visibility of Clefs beyond bar 1

Reply #5 –
One problem is that, in the presence of repeats things can become ambiguous.  For example (as exemplified by some of "peanut Jake"'s settings) it is possible to include MIDI instrument patches in special endings.  In this case a staff be playing which ever was the last instrument called for.

In general, with non-front-to-back flow NWC/NWP does not treat the score as static.  If you start a piece in one key, say C, then switch to A part way through and then repeat the second time through the first part will also be played with three sharps.  To overcome this you have to insert a C key signature just before the repeat.  Similarly dynamics follow the flow of the score (which makes it easy to play a repeated section loudly the first time and softly the second, as baroque practice sometimes calls for.

So, there is no way to tell what the key or instrument or dynamic of a particular place in a score is, it depends on how you got there!

Re: Visibility of Clefs beyond bar 1

Reply #6 –
Sorry, I forgot to check on clefs.  This is a bit odd.  If you only include the closing repeat, with an implied open repeat at the beginning, a change of clef does not carry through the repeat, the playing reverts to the initial clef.  If, however, you have an explicit open repeat following the initial clef (and key signature) then which ever clef was last encountered during the play is still in effect when you start the repeat.

It turns out that the same is true for key signatures IF there is an explicit initial signature.  If, as in my first test, the implicit key of C is used then in the repeat will be in the last key used.  But if an explicit C signature is inserted (showing as a grayed-out natural F) then an implicit open repeat causes a reversion to C (in the same way as it does for the clef), but an explicit open repeat (following the clef and key signature) causes the continuation of the last used key.

I haven't checked tempo and time-signatures here.  I'm not sure what, if any effect would be entailed by changes in time-signatures, since their main (only?) effect seems to be on beaming and auditing of bars, and those are both done statically.  Tempo may well persist after repeats, but I don't have time to check just now.

Re: Visibility of Clefs beyond bar 1

Reply #7 –
Re: https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=5127.msg32556#msg32556

Nothing strange about open repeats and clefs. A da capo encounters the initial clef and acts accordingly.

IMO, the key sigs, tempos, dynamics, mpcs, etc. all work as they should. NWC is not primarily a midi sequencer program. It is a music notation program that uses midi to verify correct entry.

Some arrangements of Carol King's Tapestry change key at the repeat. If you key it to Noteworthy, it will play exactly as intended. I would not like this behaviour to change.

You will save much grief if you always start with a key sig, even if the key is "C" (unless you intend the midi output to be keyless). NW lets have it both ways.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Visibility of Clefs beyond bar 1

Reply #8 –
Just to clarify, I wasn't advocating a change in the behaviour, I was just pointing out that a static indication of the key/clef/etc. at a given point (which is all that one could expect) may well not be meaningful.

Re: Visibility of Clefs beyond bar 1

Reply #9 –
It's well worth while using suitable names for the staves as these appear on the status bar. With a full orchestral score it can be a little confusing. It helps to group the staves by instrument type putting breaks between them. (Use a hidden 'standard' stave to do this.)

NWC is meant to be easy but a few more details on the status bar may not spoil it. If it was a problem perhaps an advanced mode could be available in setup.
It would be very handy to have the clef, bar number, keysig on the status bar.

Re: Visibility of Clefs beyond bar 1

Reply #10 –
I agree that the more info in the status bar the better, subject to how much memory it might take up.

While my vertical split screen may not work well on repeats, it should be good for key changes, clef changes, etc. as they occur.  Initially the left pane shows the beginning of the visible staffs, but when you change the key, you scroll to that spot in the left pane.  No so good for clef changes, if they only involve one instrument.  But you can put phantom (invisible) clefs and keys at that point on every staff, so they can be seen while you work in the right pane.

Re: Visibility of Clefs beyond bar 1

Reply #11 –
I think it be really good if clef & key signature hanged at left side of screen as you go right.
 

Re: Visibility of Clefs beyond bar 1

Reply #12 –
I have now added this to the wish list :-)