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Topic: Creating a classical guitar midi file (Read 6384 times) previous topic - next topic

Creating a classical guitar midi file

After using NoteWorthy for quite a long time, I thought I'd pretty much covered all the bases where keying in a score was concerned, but I'm beginning to suspect there are some unwritten rules about creating a guitar midi file by entering notes in NoteWorthy. I once saw a score in the NWC Scriptorium where each note (pitch) was enter on a different stave. What was that about? Does it have anything to do with something I read on the Classical Guitar Midi Archives, about the fact that guitar strings frequently ring out beyond their stated values, and anything else would not sound authentic?
Are there any other unwritten rules?

Re: Creating a classical guitar midi file

Reply #1 –
Yes, if you just enter the note durations verbatim from a score, you'll end up with a very chunky midi rendition. When a real guitar player realises a piece, the "rules" are: 1: Don't move a fretting finger until you have to, 2: Don't damp a string unless it sounds bad. So by treating each string as a separate instrument, allowing note durations to ring on in accordance with the above guidelines, a more realistic performance is attained.

As to other unwritten rules - there are only possibilities for improvement. So I wouldn't call them "rules" as much as "tricks" or techniques. For instance, hammer-ons and pull-offs can be made more realistic by applying an abrupt pitch bend + volume increase on an already-sounding note, rather than sounding a new note. Another example: real players get different timbres by playing closer to or further from the bridge, as needed; this can be emulated by mixing in varying amounts of, say, "acoustic steel guitar" patch to the classical nylon patch sound. An example is here.

Really the only "rule" I can think of is to set staff transposition to -12 so that it correctly sounds an octave lower than written.

HTH
Fred

Re: Creating a classical guitar midi file

Reply #2 –
Oh, yes, one other thing. Chords can be played "as written," or arpeggiated by "rolling" the right-hand fingers off the string. By appropriately interspersing simultaneous chords with arpeggiated chords, you gain another dimension of expression.

Sometimes arpeggiations are marked as such explicitly (usually the closing chord of a piece), but it's one of those "unspoken rules" that even other chords may - at the performer's discretion - be arpeggiated if considered appropriate.

Music for the guitar tends to involve the performer in the process of composition a lot more than most other instruments. You'll hear this on good recordings by, say Parkening or Bream, where apparent "liberties" are taken but are always tastefully and effectively done.

Fred

Re: Creating a classical guitar midi file

Reply #3 –
Thanks. I get it. I'm going to re-do some of my stuff in this light. It looks a lot more tedious, so I guess you would only do this if the midi is what's important.

Re: Creating a classical guitar midi file

Reply #4 –
I suppose doing the same for Cello (Suite of JSBach) or Harp can be of some interest either :)

About harp though: I read on the web site of audio compositor, that sometimes the soundcard keeps on producing sound even after the note off event (in the paragraph where they explain why there can be hundreds of simultaneous sounds on a 32-voices system). I suppose that, in that case, the midi driver (tries to) produce the sound as if it was a real instrument, making some kind of "resonance" after sound is off ?

What can be of some interest for more "real" sound, is to make open strings (or not played string on a "barré") resonate (some harmonics appear) where needed. But I think this becomes somewhat complex, and that is one of the reson why a "virtual" piano will never sound like an actual one. Well, not before they take care of that (which is not yet to my knowledge).
Particularly noticeable on the Cello Suite of Bach played by Paul Tortelier :)

my 0.02 euro contribution...

Re: Creating a classical guitar midi file

Reply #5 –
I notice that the upper end of the Roland digital piano range offers "sympathetic resonance". I take this to mean that the piano digitally simulates the effects of the presence of non-struck strings. Can a Roland owner comment?

It should be possible to adapted the technique to enhance the digital simulation of a guitar or other stringed instruments by adding resonances from undamped strings. Perhaps it already has.

Stephen

Re: Creating a classical guitar midi file

Reply #6 –
Having downloaded Fred's guitar piece as he suggested, I would like to know how he got the chords to spread out whilst still showing in a vertical line on the staff. I suppose I could look into the file a bit but I'm a bit lazy.....

Jeremy

Re: Creating a classical guitar midi file

Reply #7 –
Hint: Page Setup, click the box so there's a checkmark in the "Hidden" group, OK. I suggest maximising the window...

Fred

Re: Creating a classical guitar midi file

Reply #8 –
Well Jeremy, let me answer for Fred. Go ahead, study the piece. Hint-hint - hidden staffs for sound, silent staffs for display. I've just finished looking and listening to it in greater detail and learned a lot. Very subtle combination of arpeggiation, pitch bends, and tempo, volume and instrument changes to create the variety of tone and expression on the classical guitar. But how did you do the harmonics, Fred? ('cause I can clearly identify it as harmonics)

AS it turns out I have Roland. It features reverb, delay, chorus and TVF (don't quite know what this last one does). So there's bound to be lots of residual sounds which Roland Sound Canvas touts as contributing towards realistic human performance. And it sounds great, but sometimes I think that you have to choose your effects very carefully and more specifically to mimic the types of over- and under-tones of the particular instrument: a general soft mushiness does not necessarily lend authenticity to specific instruments. What do y'all think?

Re: Creating a classical guitar midi file

Reply #9 –
Michael -

The harmonics in this piece (and a couple others I've done) were done by switching to the "dulcimer" patch (#16). On my particular sound system (Yamaha XG) it's quite realistic, but users of other synths have told me that it - simply stated - sounds awful.

I'm under the impression that Roland GS and Yamaha XG sounds are quite similar, an impression borne out by the fact that /most/ of my sequences sound ok on DirectMusic Midi (which is a subset of Roland's patches).

Re: Creating a classical guitar midi file

Reply #10 –
Ah Fred, dulcimer again :)

Talking about such hidden staves, how did you compose (to my surpise and pleasure) the birds' song at the end of the Papagen[oa] duet?
I know you used the "bird tweet" instrument (patch?) but by sightreading it, it seems to me that it shouldn't sound as it does. Did you have lessons from Olivier Messiaen ??
I don't know on other synths, but with my old SB16 it's pretty pretty, as with SoftSynth50. Thanks for it!

Re: Creating a classical guitar midi file

Reply #11 –
No, marsu, I can't take credit for anything as exotic as that... I just mucked about with it until it kinda sounded right. ;-)

Fred

Re: Creating a classical guitar midi file

Reply #12 –
Not to worry. That's what Messiaen did too.
 

Re: Creating a classical guitar midi file

Reply #13 –
I'd wager that the birds use a similar approach also. ;-)

btw - marsu, you're the first person to notice (or at least comment on) my little joke here. There's another "special effect" on the Queen of the Night aria if you're interested.