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Topic: How do I access voices above 128? (Read 6877 times) previous topic - next topic

How do I access voices above 128?

I just downloaded Yamaha's S-YXG50, and love it so far.
The help files indicate that it has 676 Normal Voices and 21 Drum Voices. It then says that if a voice number above 128 is wanted, one must use a bank number and a program number in combination. What does this mean? I've looked around NWC and don't see where this is possible. I'm also familiar with MIDI and have never seen voices above 128.
All help appreciated,
Gordon

Re: How do I access voices above 128?

Reply #1 –
In Staff --> Properties --> Midi --> Patch/Bank Change you'll see a clickbox for "change bank". This allows you to switch to a different bank, using controllers 0 or 32 or both (depending on the requirements of the synth).

You should know, though, that not all synths will respond in the same way as yours. I, too, have a Yamaha XG (except mine's in firmware on my soundcard) and haven't even heard those 500-odd additional sounds... simply because all of my work so far has been with transportability in mind.

Re: How do I access voices above 128?

Reply #2 –
Like Fred, I pretty much stick with the standard set of voices to assure some compatibility. However, the question perked my interest. I personally need a "cookbook", so I'll try to lay out a step by step.

1. Although I have a Yamaha card as well as well as the Ensoniq PCI (my normal card), the downloadable SYXG50 driver can be used in connection with my ensoniq if selected as the driver.

2. To get a list of the SYXG50 banks and instruments, go to Start, the Yamaha Softsynth category and go to the help file. Go to "Functions", selecting voices, and (for instance) click on "XG Normal Voice List". I suggest that the topic be printed out.

3. In reviewing the voices, you will find that many are "subsets" of the existing voices. Thus, it is somewhat easier just to keep the "General Midi" Patch List in the Noteworthy "Staff Properties" list.

4. On the Staff Properties, Midi screen, make sure the Yamaha SXG driver is selected. (If it is not an option, you may need to reinstall or make sure it is available in the Multimedia properties component of the Windows System category.)

5. Now the fun part. On the initial NWC staff properties, midi screen, click "change" on the playback instrument. Select the instrument (or program number you want) as you would normally do. If you want to cross check the "program number", you can temporarily change the patch list type to numerical. With most sound cards, you will find that the steel guitar is Program Number 26.

6. If you want some variations, look at the voice list you printed out. In Bank Select on the NWC staff properties sheet, click on the "Select a different patch bank". Typically, the controller O should be kept to "zero" for beginning practice, looking over the list. (If you look at the Yamaha XG voice list, that is equivalent to selecting the GM,general midi bank without a lot of special effects). Controller 32 selects the particular Bank number noted in the early pages of the Yamaha help, voice selection lists.

7. As an example, on the NWC staff properties, midi screens, if I have selected the SYG50 driver, steel guitar (program 26), with controller0=0, and controller32(ie the "bank #)=35, I will get a 12 string guitar sound.

8. Your particular question is why you cannot get voices above 128. Actually, in the Yamaha SYG50 setup, the extra voices tend to be "subsets" of existing voices in a lot of settings.

9. The only "trick" at this point is: is there an easy way to sample all of the voices without going through all of the "multiple clicks" in the Noteworthy program. I don't know at this point, but perhaps someone else out there has an answer.

Hope that helps. Sorry about the length of the response. However, it might save someother midi-challenged person several hours of hit and miss testing.

Re: How do I access voices above 128?

Reply #3 –
Quick addendum to last message.

It is very easy to quickly "sample" all of the 600 some odd voices with Midisoft Studio 6.0. Simply go to the Device Wizard, choose the Yamaha SYG50, choose device properties, and then choose the XG extended series for the sounds and percussion. The entirety of the sounds (with names and grouped by either banks or types) will then be available under the Instrument Inspector. Under midisoft, one can change the instrument as a piece is playing to hear the different sounds.

I suspect other sequencing programs may have similar capabilities.

Re: How do I access voices above 128?

Reply #4 –
My XG soundcard (from Mediatrix) came with a program on CD called "XGEdit" which does much the same thing using a bank of "radio buttons". You can also use it to fine-tune your XG effects settings, and so on. It even has a built-in virtual keyboard, and looks and operates much like a mix-down studio. It's supposed to work with the softsynth also (which I have but can't use because of hardware limitations).

It's written by G. Gregson, and appears to be available as a shareware program also. Might be worth a look into, either by searching the web or perhaps contacting http://www.mediatrix.com

Fred

Re: How do I access voices above 128?

Reply #5 –
Gordon: a belated further note.

The file NTWpatch.ini in your Noteworthy folder contains the information for patch lists. Lo and behold, I discovered that I could copy and patch the Yamaha XG Extended voice set from another program's ini file into the NTWpatch.ini file, and after some fiddling with format to make it consistent with Noteworthy's format, made it work so that the Yamaha 50XG instruments could be selected by name rather than all the controller gobblygook.

If you are interested, I could send you more information. Quick word of warning: save a copy of the orginal NTWpatch.ini file under some other name in case all blows up! Steve

Re: How do I access voices above 128?

Reply #6 –
Seems I spoke too quickly. The "import" of the information into the ntwpatch.ini (with some editing) displayed the additional sounds with the additional controller information (i.e. "12 string guitar" would be followed by the necessary controller32 number 35). However, the additional controller would still need to be noted on the instrument patch screen under the staff properties, program change screen. Sorry about that. Have sent a wish list item to NWC to make matters easier.

Re: How do I access voices above 128?

Reply #7 –
I've used Cakewalk also, but prefer Cubasis Audio (the simplest in the Cubase line) simply because it's the first sequencer I used, and I prefer its more austere "European" look and feel to the more glitzy GUI in Cakewalk. I still use Cubasis occasionally for tweaking midi files, etc.

Ahchoo is right; you can't directly compare NWC (or Encore or Finale or Sibelius for that matter) with Cakewalk/ Cubase or other sequencers. I won't say "NWC is better than Cakewalk (or Cubase)" -- better for what? I /will/ say that for 95%+ of my work with music, NWC is the appropriate tool to use. For 95%+ of my midi tweaking I use a text editor (together with midi-text converters). For the other 5% or less I use Cubasis.

Re: How do I access voices above 128?

Reply #8 –
I find that Cake Walk Pro has far better midi cabilities then NWC. I know this because I've used NWC for a great deal of time, but I personally found the extra tracks on SYXG-70 better used in Cake Walk Pro. I suggest for improvement of quality that you give Cake Walk Pro a try :)
 

Re: How do I access voices above 128?

Reply #9 –
I personally found Cakewalk to be absolute rubbish.
Every time I ran Cakewalk, cakewalk sent a whole bunch of resets to my synth which totally stuffed up all my settings. After a few goes of this I got the hint to turn it off while trying Cakewalk, but this didn't work all the time as I usually rehearse what I want to play while running the software. So I spend the next ten minutes resetting my synth and by that time forget what I want to play. So that was the first area of crap. The next areas of crap were useless interface, all-hype/no use features, slow to record/play, notation was shocking, everything was a joke. Be warned! If you want to be a synth programmer instead of a musician try it out!
Noteworthy doesn't pretend to be a complete sequence/notation package, but it does record and you can sequence quickly if you can read music and copy and paste sections. (so it does what you want without the hype)