Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Notation for upper octaves (Read 5646 times) previous topic - next topic

Notation for upper octaves

I am working on a piano solo arrangement, and it will require using the upper octaves of the [88-key] piano. How do you use the software to show that the notes are to be played an octave higher than written, so that you don't have ledger lines running sky high above the staff? [seems like this might be called an "octava", but my jargon is rustier than my playing].

Re: Notation for upper octaves

Reply #1 –
Insert a clef (press C on the keyboard) and specify treble clef, octave up. It's as easy as that!

Re: Notation for upper octaves

Reply #2 –
But I don't think I've ever ever seen a treble clef with an 'octave up' directive. And particularly not in piano music. The only such shift in common use is the 'octave down' to denote that the clef is for tenor rather than soprano/alto. (Or does someone know differently?)

No, we definitely want an 8vo facility for piano music. Another one for the wish list.

Re: Notation for upper octaves

Reply #3 –
My version (1.55b) shows octave up AND down can be selected for the treble clef.

Re: Notation for upper octaves

Reply #4 –
Peter, if you do not want to use the up-shifted clef, which works correctly musically speacking either, then try with boxmarks font.
Define font User1 as Boxmarks 16
Enter text item with the string '8v' at staff position 6, not preserving space, font = User1;
Enter text item with '__________' as long as necessary (start with some space to go after first text item), staff position 10, font=staff lyric, not preserving space;
Enter text item (copy the first one and modify it) with 'w' as string at the position you want to stop your octave shift.

But as a flutist/pianist/guitarist, I assure you that 8va sign for octuve up is comprehensive. With flute I often have either 4 or more ledger lines up, or 8ve up clef. I prefer 2nd notation of course. With guitar the "text" solution (I mean 8------------ written above) is more used. But any musician hould be able to read any of this, some will feel more comfortable with certain notation that others (but imho no one will be at ease with more than 4 ledger lines, we agree I guess).

Hope this helps,

Dominique

P.S. Ask me for an example if I'm not clear enough.
Boxmarks font can be found at the scriptorium ( http://noteworthy.beyondtheweb.com/ )

Re: Notation for upper octaves

Reply #5 –
If a person had to go above the staff, then that staff could be hidden while a "better looking staff" was put in place for looks and muted.

Re: Notation for upper octaves

Reply #6 –
BTW, to write above a "Soprano" staff, we could use the "Treble Clef" on 3rd line instead of 2nd line, but this is so rare that I'm sure only one or two people here can read it.
Anyway, this is out of scope of NWC for now. Unless you insert it as text (on a muted staff then).

A propos, does someone have a reference on which instrument uses which clef, and their lowest+highest notes?

Musically yours,
                                        Dominique

Re: Notation for upper octaves

Reply #7 –
I suppose you meant "use the Treble Clef on 1st line instead of 2nd line", because the Treble Clef on 3rd line would do the contrary. Anyway, the usage is then to use the C Clef (what is its correct name in english ?) on 1st line.

Re: Notation for upper octaves

Reply #8 –
But back to Mark's problem - I think the easiest thing is to insert the text "8va" (staff italic should look good) at a good looking place above the staff. Then add text "-" as needed to convey the meaning to the performer, finishing with "|" at the end of the octavo section. I find this easier to read than an octave shifted clef - they're just too subtle to notice quickly. Of course, I am assuming that this is for a live performer, not for MIDI playback. I would agree with Fred's solution for that purpose.

HTH,
Peter

Re: Notation for upper octaves

Reply #9 –
Yeah, yeah, I meant "octave up", not "octave down."

- seb

Re: Notation for upper octaves

Reply #10 –
Why choose?

Use *both* "octave down" treble clef and "8va---" text!

Then it will play back correctly and print well too, assuming the extra treble clefs aren't too annoying/confusing.

Btw, all of the same applies to lower-octave bass as well,
as if you couldn't figure that out on your own. ;-)

- seb

Re: Notation for upper octaves

Reply #11 –
Extra clefs aren't just confusing, they're also inappropriate - standard scores don't have to put in an extra clef each time they include an 8va. section. Violin clef would be, as already suggested, a pretty obscure answer even if Noteworthy allowed it, and from what I've seen of treble clefs with an 8 above or below these are _not_ an instruction to the player. Some of my recorder scores, for instance, use a treble clef with 8 above for the descant line to show it sounds an octave higher than written; not as an instruction to play an octave higher.

Re: Notation for upper octaves

Reply #12 –
NWC 1.70 will be the answer. It is now possible to hide any object on the staff. Then, when you need too include an 8va section, add a hidden Treble Clef with octave up, and 8va--- as text. At the end of the section, insert a hidden Treble Clef at standard octave, and --| as text.

Thus, it's OK both for printing and for sounding, without the pain of making a hidden staff.
 

Re: Notation for upper octaves

Reply #13 –
Warning - when you hide a clef, all subsequent clefs (at the beginning of each line) will also be hidden. To get around this, insert a non-hidden clef at the start of the next printed line.