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Topic: Stem Length for Beamed Notes (Read 4500 times) previous topic - next topic

Stem Length for Beamed Notes

When I compare an NWC score with other printed music, it seems that the stem lengths for beamed notes are longer. Try this example: 8th note at 2nd F above middle C, 16 notes at first F and G above middle C. Beam them.

My guess is the rule is that the shortest stem should have the length of an un-beamed note. In this example, I think the top of the beam should be where the second beam line is. Maybe the software assumed the entire note collection was 16th notes when calculating the stem lengths.

Does this make sense, or am I out to lunch? I think the scores would look a little nicer if the stem lengths were a bit shorter.

Re: Stem Length for Beamed Notes

Reply #1 –
IMHO you are right. The actual note lengths are not really relevant, since you get the same effect even if all the note are semiquavers.

I looked at some Associate Board (ABRSM) exam music - they do take care to publish accurately - and they print beamed quavers (on a 19pt clef) with stems of 6mm (including the note-head. Beamed semiquavers are about the same length (possibly very slightly longer), so the 1/16th beam goes inside the 1/8th beam so to speak. I think that even 1/32nd notes have similar length stems although it was difficult to find a decent example.

Icouldn't find any example where they shortened stems off-clef to get them to fit in though.

On a page publishing note they not only extend and justify the last system, but also increase the staff spacing (ie the spacing between one instance of the group of staves and the next)to fill the page.

Two more for the wish list.

peter

Re: Stem Length for Beamed Notes

Reply #2 –
I agree about stem lengths but since we're talking wish lists, how about these ones, found in Massenet's 'Manon': - tied notes including a rest INSIDE the ties.
- 1/2 notes with double or triple bars on the stems.

Re: Stem Length for Beamed Notes

Reply #3 –
"1/2 notes with double or triple bars on the stems."

Wouldn't that be a tremolo marking?

Re: Stem Length for Beamed Notes

Reply #4 –
It could be, but that is normally shown as short (ie disconnected) beams between the stems of two notes. On a single note it just means repetition of that note, the speed depending on the number of beams.

Re: Stem Length for Beamed Notes

Reply #5 –
I think Damien's half right. The usual convention is to read two beams crossing a half-note stem (or over a whole note) as meaning even 16th notes, but to treat triple beams as indicating an unmeasured (as-fast-as-possible) tremolo. This would mean you're out of luck if you want to use triple beams as shorthand for even 32nd notes. I think you'd write out the first few notes (say, the entire first beat or even first half of the measure) in actual 32nds, and then use the 3-beam shorthand for the rest of the measure, perhaps with a "simile" marking to make things perfectly clear.

What's "normally shown as short (i.e., disconnected) beams between the stems" is a different type of tremolo entirely - the rapid alternation of two *different* notes, essentially a trill but usually wider than a second. This is called a "fingered tremolo" when written for strings, in contrast to the rapid repetition of a single note, which is a "bowed tremolo".

Re: Stem Length for Beamed Notes

Reply #6 –
You can do tied notes with a rest inside the ties by
inputting the two notes to be tied, tying them, and then
inserting a rest in between. In fact, you can insert
just about anything in between two tied notes, as long as
you tie them (with nothing inside) first (and as long as
the "anything" doesn't include another instance of the
note being tied).

Just curious: what is the musical interpretation of the
tie across a rest?

- seb

Re: Stem Length for Beamed Notes

Reply #7 –
A tie through a rest would be meaningless, since a tie means that the two notes are effectively combined into a single note.

A slur through a rest might be meaningful, e.g. in string music you might want the player to play the notes on a single bow, with a rest inbetween. This would be similar to a bowed staccato (Mozart uses this alot.)

Re: Stem Length for Beamed Notes

Reply #8 –
Fred,

Surely a tie through a rest would be OK if you had two voices on one stave (Tenor and Bass for example) or a chord with notes of varying length?

Rich
 

Re: Stem Length for Beamed Notes

Reply #9 –
Good point. True enough, with multiple voices on one staff, _anything_ can (and does) happen!