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Topic: INcorrect Instrument (Read 10464 times) previous topic - next topic

INcorrect Instrument

When I add a new staff, it randomly defaults to a percussive instrument.  I change the instrument using the proper window, however the playback does not change?

Re: INcorrect Instrument

Reply #1 –
Check the channel number. If it is 10, then it is always for percussion instruments.

Change the channel to something other than 10 that has not already been used.

Press key "R" to review the channel numbers.

Alt enter and then midi tab to change the channel number for a staff.
 
Rich.

Re: INcorrect Instrument

Reply #2 –
Being mystified by unexpected percussion is one of the most common "problems" reported by new users on the forum. I think this suggestion has been made before, but I'll make it again: why not simply have NWC skip channel 10 when assigning channel numbers to new staves?

Re: INcorrect Instrument

Reply #3 –
Quote from: William Ashworth –
why not simply have NWC skip channel 10 when assigning channel numbers to new staves?

Agreed. A newby at NWC would need to be knowledgeable at midi processes to know that this might happen.
Rich.

Re: INcorrect Instrument

Reply #4 –
The corollary would be to have the option when adding staves to add a percussion staff..?
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: INcorrect Instrument

Reply #5 –
Good idea, Lawrie. You can always do this by changing to channel 10, but newbies can't be expected to know this.

Re: INcorrect Instrument

Reply #6 –
Maybe an auto clef as well? 
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: INcorrect Instrument

Reply #7 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
Maybe an auto clef as well? 

When I first read this, I mis-read it as "Alto" clef and thought "Why would Lawrie want to do that". Having got my specs on, I'm not that sure about an auto clef either. I might have to be convinced.  There could be a lot of things to set up around a clef and I might get annoyed if I wanted to set up a choral suite with SATB and soloists and a treble clef was automatically inserted each time I clicked new staff.  I know it only needs a delete key ....  still.

Now if you could have the feature together with functionality to configure it "off", then no objections !
Rich.

Re: INcorrect Instrument

Reply #8 –
No, no, no, no...  Not on all staves - Sorry Rich, didn't mean to cause a panic!

I just meant that if NWC were to skip channel 10 when creating new staves, then it might be worthwhile to have the option to specifically create a percussion staff, in which case channel 10 would be selected, and thus an automatic percussion clef might be a welcome feature too.

Whew!
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: INcorrect Instrument

Reply #9 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
No, no, no, no...  Not on all staves - Sorry Rich, didn't mean to cause a panic!

Phew ! Thanks for the clarification.  I shouldda realised.

No problems with that suggestion. It would help to re-inforce "percussion". 
Just one question - with all the different percussion patches available, would most of them expect to have a percussion clef ?
Rich.

Re: INcorrect Instrument

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Richard Woodroffe –
Just one question - with all the different percussion patches available, would most of them expect to have a percussion clef ?
I imagine there may be some that would function better with, say, a treble clef (to avoid ledger lines) but there's no reason that the clef couldn't be changed if necessary.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: INcorrect Instrument

Reply #11 –
New Staff (Ctrl+A) should always assign MIDI Channel 16. That is how NWC acts when all channels are assigned.

IMO, auto assigning Clefs is a bad idea. Why stop at Clefs and not auto assign Keys and TimeSigs?

Instead of the Caption: Properties for <staffname>, it might be more logical to use: Staff Properties (MIDI ch<nn>)
Registered user since 1996

Re: INcorrect Instrument

Reply #12 –
Rick, if every <new staff> command assigns channel 16, won't channel 16 get pretty busy? ;-) The way the program currently assigns channels to new staves works fine except when the new staff is staff number 10. IMHO, the best solution for that is to just skip channel 10 when auto-assigning channels.

Lawrie's suggestion is actually the solution to a second problem; how to help newbies get percussion sounds when they want them (as opposed to not getting percussion sounds when they don't want them). A separate menu command for <new percussion staff> - hopefully, with a corresponding button for the button bar - would provide that help.

I'm not so sure about auto-assignment of a percussion clef to a new percussion staff, though. There might be times when I would want to use a different clef, or to be clefless. Likewise with the number of staff lines: it might help if a new percussion staff appeared as a two- or three-line staff instead of a five-line staff, but there would certainly be times when a different number of staff lines was called for. OTOH, the clef and the number of staff lines could always be changed, and we do that now for any percussion staff. So the work of establishing a new percussion staff would likely decrease in most cases. I dunno.

Bill

Re: INcorrect Instrument

Reply #13 –
I'm experienced enough to know that channel 10 is "special" so I have no problem to change the channel number when needed.
Anyway I'd appreciate if, by default, when adding a new staff the channel 10 is avoided.

Quote
The way the program currently assigns channels to new staves works fine except when the new staff is staff number 10.

No, that's not what's needed. The staff number doesn't matter.
What's needed is
Quote
to skip channel 10 when creating new staves

A similar topic: I already suggested the automatic insertion of the percussion clef when importing channel 10 from midi. The only drawback is if the percussions used are on high "pitches", in which case you need a lot of ledger lines.

Re: INcorrect Instrument

Reply #14 –
But you can always use Staff/Properties/Instrument/Transposition or even an MPC to bring the Instrument down onto its correct position on the Percussion Staff.

Re: INcorrect Instrument

Reply #15 –
Quote
or even an MPC

I don't think so. MPC moves everything!

Quote
you can always use Staff/Properties/Instrument/Transposition

Well, having to do that by hand invalidates the usefulness of the "automation".

By the way: often, in that case, I simply use a staff with percussion clef + octave up.

Re: INcorrect Instrument

Reply #17 –
G'day Rick,
Quote from: Rick G. –
IMO, auto assigning Clefs is a bad idea. Why stop at Clefs and not auto assign Keys and TimeSigs?
Umm, following the course of the discussion, my suggestion was:
  • Don't auto assign channel 10 when creating new staves.
  • Have an additional command to create a percussion staff which DOES assign channel 10
  • Given that this staff will always be percussion why not auto place a percussion clef?

I certainly would'nt suggest auto assigning a clef, or any other object for that matter, at staff creation time.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: INcorrect Instrument

Reply #18 –
Flurmey, you're correct, a pitch-bend won't work (I'll try to get brain into gear next time!)

But if you want a percussion instrument to be shown correctly on a single percussion staff line then you'll have to transpose it, so I can't see what the point is you are trying to make.

In fact if you have several percussion instruments then you have to put each one on its own transposed staff (all on channel 10) so that each appears, each in its correct position.
 

Re: INcorrect Instrument

Reply #19 –
Right so, Peter.
Indeed normally you write a staff for each instrument.

My concern was about the import from MIDI, in which case you often have a staff (or two) full of notes with the most strange of the... harmonies. ;-)