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Clusters

How does one write a cluster on the program?

Re: Clusters

Reply #1 –
I do not understand your question in the context of music notation and NWC. What do you mean by this question? Could you elaborate on a cluster?

Re: Clusters

Reply #2 –
A cluster is a group of notes all 1 half-step apart. Attempting to write a d and a d-flat in the same chord, I found the program unwilling. Please tell me how I may do this. Thank you.

Re: Clusters

Reply #3 –
Select stem up, insert your D. Then select stem down, select the "flat" button, and use CNTL ENTER to insert the Db.

Then it gets trickier. You can't add a D#, you'll have to settle for Eb. (Enharmonically the same note, sounds just as bad.. ;-) )

Regards,
Fred

Re: Clusters

Reply #4 –
Fred, I can't try it right now, but is it possible then
to have e.g. Bb, B, C, Db, D, Eb and E on the same chord ?
Or simply Db, D, Eb and E ?

Re: Clusters

Reply #5 –
I don't see why not, I'm not at a computer with NWC installed at the moment. Experiment! :)

Re: Clusters

Reply #6 –
It is not a good idea to try combining a natural note and corresponding flat at the same position on the staff. You should use the enharmonic equivalent for one of the notes. For example, D and C#m rather than D and Db.

Re: Clusters

Reply #7 –
But in lots of kinds of music like jazz and classical piano this is used.

Re: Clusters

Reply #8 –
Hmm. So contiguous clusters can only be at most 3 semitones large (eg B,C,Db or G#,A,Bb), no?. However, if a semitone were dropped out here and there, you can make some very fat chords. Also, the overlaying thingy could work well, or using a hidden staff to add extra notes (though how one notates them is another matter).

A

Re: Clusters

Reply #9 –
You can also use a double-flat on top and double-sharp on the bottom, if you are so inclined. I would not want to be the performer for the piece, however (maybe not the listener either). - Eric

Re: Clusters

Reply #10 –
My daughter's cat Schubert composed a piece like that once, by sitting on her D50 with the Theatre Organ patch on. It was a modern impressionistic piece, evoking visions of his feline compadres on a back fence ;-)

Re: Clusters

Reply #11 –
So...let's see. The biggest cluster I can come up with is
Gx,A#,B,C,Db,Ebb. I asked my g.f. (she's a classical piano
teacher) what would be a good way, she said that often
just the top and bottom notes are scored, with a "block"
between them, and often a table at the bottom of the sheet
for ref. Would a "lyric" under the chord be acceptable?
(I.E.- cluster, black and white keys.)

P.S.-
Fred, I love your daughters cats name! Can anyone guess
where my g.f. got her 4 pet chickens names from? They are
Anna, Clara, Hildegarde and Fanny ;^)

P.P.S.-
They are NOT allowed to play the piano.

Re: Clusters

Reply #12 –
Anna Magdalena Bach
Clara Schumann
Hildegarde of Bingen
Fanny Mendellsohn

Am I right?

Re: Clusters

Reply #13 –
BTW, clusters are used extensively in modern concert music as well as in some jazz styles. In modern concert music, they are usually notated as suggested above (top & bottom note written with "bar" thingy connecting them). This would be a nice feature for NWC to include in 2.x. Maybe also other modern musical notations as well....

I'm not sure how jazz notates the clusters, since it's mostly improv. They may not notate them at all, but let the performer "do his thing."

Re: Clusters

Reply #14 –
2.x ? why not 1.6 ?
by te way this could be added to bowmarks font... ;-)

Re: Clusters

Reply #15 –
Michele, Right-O! :^>

Re: Clusters

Reply #16 –
I didn't mean for a simple question to degenerate into a discussion about the aesthetic value of tone clusters.

Re: Clusters

Reply #17 –
To Sheldon: Yay! At least my musical training wasn't for naught! The head of the Music History Department at the Conservatory I attended was a hard-core feminist & made sure we knew ALL about important women in music. Hildegard is probably my favorite - I love plainchant & to hear it in women's voices is wonderful. There is a music group that plays Hildegard's music - they're url is http://www.mattress.org/urban/sky.html
They played (or will play - not sure of the date) at Hildegard's 900th birthday celebration this year.

To Shannon: It shouldn't have degenerated at all. Clusters are a common device used in modern concert music & you had good reason to ask if they were support in NWC.

To wow: I wrote that before I knew the boxmarks font existed, but yes, they could be added to that. It'd make more sense for ALL of that stuff to be added to future versions of NWC. I said "2.x" because this would constitute a major revision (especially since the playback would have to support all of that stuff) & not just a "feature creeper." You only increment the ".x" when it's a minor modification - no major changes to the underlying functions or look of the software.

Re: Clusters

Reply #18 –
Excuse me - "*their* url" not "they're url"....

Re: Clusters

Reply #19 –
Thanx for the URL. But I think the name is 'Hildegard _von_ Bingen'. Even in french :^P

I still insist for 1.x : I know NWC since the 1.1(0) version and a GREAT enhancement was lyrics. it was NOT 2.x but 1.2x version...
Normally small changes (bug fixes, ...) refer to a last char. : NWC 1.52a, Word 6.0c...

Personally I often use three numbers : release.version.revision, which is the same as release.version.bugfix[letter]

I'd agree with NWC 2.x version if it had a macro editor in it, for example... ;-)

NWCly yours,
                      Dominique

Re: Clusters

Reply #20 –
"von", "of" - It may be the same in French, but I'm American, so I can say "of" if I want to. ::teasing::

Anyway, I guess we just have a difference of opinion as to how big of an addition these changes would be. No big deal either way whether it's called 2.x or 1.6, just as long as the changes are considered & possibly implemented!

Michele
 

Re: Clusters

Reply #21 –
An interesting historical side-note: As Michelle pointed out, the "von" originally just meant "of" or "from," as in "Francis of Assisi" etc. But later, the "von" label was used to indicate members of the aristocracy.

In Dutch, "von" translates into "van" - and the Dutch never carried this into an aristocratic title. So Ludwig van Beethoven (literally, "from the root garden") used this to advantage... it was generally assumed that he was of "aristocratic blood" when he really wasn't. This little misunderstanding suited LvB's personality to a tee.... ;-)