Section Close - Section Open Printing Problem

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Section Close - Section Open Printing Problem

2005-12-16 09:25 pm

I am notating a rather large orchestral-choral piece with 24 sections. My goal is to create one file. At the end of each section I insert a Force System Break, add a new single bar line and change it to Section Open. It looks fine Viewer Preview; however, in Print Preview the Section Open bar line follows the clef sign and key signature. I have tried adding an additional Force System Break to the Section Open bar line but that doesn’t help either. Any ideas on this? (See Example Below) Look at it in Viewer Preview then Print Preview.

Thanks,

Carl Mill

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#,C#
|TimeSig|Signature:Common
|PerformanceStyle|Style:Legato|Pos:-6|Justify:Right|Visibility:Never
|Dynamic|Style:f|Pos:6
|Note|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:3
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:#-1
|TempoVariance|Style:Fermata|Pause:0|Pos:6|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:SectionClose|SysBreak:Y
|Bar|Style:SectionOpen
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#,C#
|Text|Text:"No. 2"|Font:User1|Pos:16|Justify:Center
|Text|Text:"Duetto."|Font:PageSmallText|Pos:11|Placement:BestFitForward
|Text|Text:"S. I"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:6|Placement:BestFitForward
|TimeSig|Signature:Common
|Instrument|Name:"Solo"|Patch:54|Bank:0,0|Trans:0|DynVel:50,65,75,85,100,110,120,127|Pos:8|Wide:Y|Placement:BestFitForward|Visibility:Always
|Bar
|Dynamic|Style:ff|Pos:-16|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-1^
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:n1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1
|Bar|Style:SectionClose|SysBreak:Y
|Bar|Style:SectionOpen|SysBreak:Y
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#,C#,G#
|TimeSig|Signature:AllaBreve
|Text|Text:"Alla breve"|Font:User1|Pos:13
|Instrument|Name:"TUTTI"|Patch:52|Bank:0,0|Trans:0|DynVel:50,65,75,85,100,110,120,127|Pos:6|Wide:Y|Placement:BestFitForward|Visibility:Always
|Note|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:#0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:#2|Opts:Crescendo
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1|Opts:Crescendo
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:2|Opts:Crescendo
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:3|Opts:Crescendo
|Dynamic|Style:ff|Opts:Velocity=125|Pos:7|Placement:BestFitForward|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:4|Opts:Diminuendo
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:3|Opts:Diminuendo
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:#2|Opts:Diminuendo
|Dynamic|Style:mf|Pos:9|Placement:BestFitForward|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:2
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Re: Section Close - Section Open Printing Problem

Reply #1 – 2005-12-16 10:28 pm

G'day Carl,
I think this behaviour is by design.

For interest, I looked up my friend Alfred and there is no mention of a "section open" barline anywhere in there...

I also don't recall ever having seen one "in the wild" so to speak.

It seems to me that a section end (which is in Alfred's under the name "final") should be sufficient as the next section is new by implication... Is my experience just limited or is there a real need for these guys?

Lawrie

Re: Section Close - Section Open Printing Problem

Reply #2 – 2005-12-16 11:53 pm

Maybe this will work for you.
Use the last variation (with the tied grace notes) if you can't tolerate a 32nd note pause (unlikely to be a problem here);
Just be careful "auditing" accidentals with the invisible notes. Or you can use a tempo mpc to compensate.

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Rest|Dur:4th,Grace|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:SectionOpen
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#,C#
|TimeSig|Signature:Common
|PerformanceStyle|Style:Legato|Pos:-6|Justify:Right|Visibility:Never
|Dynamic|Style:f|Pos:6
|Note|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:2
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:2
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:3
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:#-1
|TempoVariance|Style:Fermata|Pause:0|Pos:6|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:SectionClose|SysBreak:Y
|Clef|Type:Treble|Visibility:Never
|Key|Signature:F#,C#|Visibility:Never
|TimeSig|Signature:Common|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:4th,Grace|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:SectionOpen
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#,C#
|TimeSig|Signature:Common
|Text|Text:"No. 2"|Font:User1|Pos:16|Justify:Center
|Text|Text:"Duetto."|Font:PageSmallText|Pos:11|Placement:BestFitForward
|Text|Text:"S. I"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:6|Placement:BestFitForward
|Instrument|Name:"Solo"|Patch:54|Bank:0,0|Trans:0|DynVel:50,65,75,85,100,110,120,127|Pos:8|Wide:Y|Placement:BestFitForward|Visibility:Always
|Dynamic|Style:ff|Pos:-16|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-1^
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:n1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1
|Bar|Style:SectionClose|SysBreak:Y
|Clef|Type:Treble|Visibility:Never
|Key|Signature:F#,C#,G#|Visibility:Never
|TimeSig|Signature:AllaBreve|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:#0^|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Style:SectionOpen|SysBreak:Y
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#,C#,G#
|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:#0^|Visibility:Never
|TimeSig|Signature:AllaBreve
|Text|Text:"Alla breve"|Font:User1|Pos:13
|Instrument|Name:"TUTTI"|Patch:52|Bank:0,0|Trans:0|DynVel:50,65,75,85,100,110,120,127|Pos:6|Wide:Y|Placement:BestFitForward|Visibility:Always
|Note|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:#0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:#2|Opts:Crescendo
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1|Opts:Crescendo
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:2|Opts:Crescendo
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:3|Opts:Crescendo
|Dynamic|Style:ff|Opts:Velocity=125|Pos:7|Placement:BestFitForward|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:4|Opts:Diminuendo
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:3|Opts:Diminuendo
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:#2|Opts:Diminuendo
|Dynamic|Style:mf|Pos:9|Placement:BestFitForward|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:2
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

This is all perfectly logical, IOW, not a bug turned into a feature, but I'll spare you the explanation.
I posted the same thing to the newsgroup awhile back (using a master repeat open instead of a Section Open). The only comment I got was: "Why would anyone want to do that?"

ahem ....

Re: Section Close - Section Open Printing Problem

Reply #3 – 2005-12-17 06:52 am

Thanks for the suggestions. What I wanted was for the notation screen, as well as the printed version, to appear correctly when being played in NWC2 or the Player. Section close, new section open. I guess it can't be done. I tried several other options such as a text bar line, but it wouldn't line up properly. I'm just going with Section Close at the end of each section and just submitted it to Scriptorium.

Re: Section Close - Section Open Printing Problem

Reply #4 – 2005-12-17 07:59 am

Well, gee, who really cares what the screen looks like?
I trust that you are not having folks over to look at your screen.
The clip I posted will print a section close at the far left of the page. That is what you wanted. isn't it?

Re: Section Close - Section Open Printing Problem

Reply #5 – 2005-12-26 05:55 pm

If you put in a section close with force system break, and then look at the print preview, you will see that at the beginning of the next system there is a section open bar line, the Clef, key signature, and time signature as you would normally find them. In other words you do not have to put in the section open after the force system break, but rather the section close before the break.

Re: Section Close - Section Open Printing Problem

Reply #6 – 2005-12-26 06:19 pm

Phil: Could you post a clip of what you are describing?
I tried to follow what I think you mean but can't get it to work.

Carl: My clip looks as expected in NWPlayer2.
In what way would you want it look different?

Re: Section Close - Section Open Printing Problem

Reply #7 – 2006-01-01 04:20 pm

Sorry, I did not see your request earlier Carl, my computer had a number of hardware failures and I have now purchased a new machine and am still recovering software. The following is a clip from The Twelve Days of Christmas which illustrates what I am talking about. Presumably, you can add key changes or time signature changes after the close section bar line and the next line will start with those changes.

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Bar|Style:SectionClose|SysBreak:Y
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:Bb
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Re: Section Close - Section Open Printing Problem

Reply #8 – 2006-01-02 10:37 pm

Thanks again for the input; however, the problem is in the measure numbering. If any of the above samples are used, additional measure numbers are added. Also, decorated bar lines do not appear properly in Print Preview using in the above suggestions. I still think it is a bug. Examples below:

Example 1 - After copying to NWC2 change to beginning bar line to Orchestral under Staff Properties\Visual and add measure number under Page Setup\Options. Then look at it in Print Preview. You will notice the 3rd and 4th staves show the Section Open bar line after the Clef and Key signatures, but the numbers are correct.

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#,C#
|TimeSig|Signature:Common
|PerformanceStyle|Style:Legato|Pos:-8|Justify:Right|Visibility:Never
|Dynamic|Style:f|Pos:13|Justify:Center
|Note|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:9
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:9
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:8
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:4
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:7
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:7
|Rest|Dur:4th
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:8
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:8
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:9
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:4
|Bar
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:7|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:1
|Bar|Style:Double
|Dynamic|Style:p|Pos:7
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:7
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:#6
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:7
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:3^
|Bar
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:#-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:2
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1
|Bar
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:#-1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:2|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Text|Text:"tr"|Font:StaffItalic|Pos:8|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:#-1
|TempoVariance|Style:Fermata|Pause:0|Pos:6|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar|Style:SectionClose|SysBreak:Y
|Bar|Style:SectionOpen
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#,C#
|Text|Text:"Violin I"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:7
|Text|Text:"No. 2"|Font:User1|Pos:12|Justify:Center
|TimeSig|Signature:Common
|Rest|Dur:8th
|Dynamic|Style:f|Pos:6
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-5|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-7|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:n-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:-5|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:-7|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-5|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:-5|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2^|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-2|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:-5|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:-6|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th,Slur|Pos:-7|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Note|Dur:16th|Pos:-8|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Bar|Style:SectionClose|SysBreak:Y
|Bar|Style:SectionOpen
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#,C#,G#
|TimeSig|Signature:AllaBreve
|Dynamic|Style:mf|Pos:7|Placement:BestFitForward
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:n2
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half,Dotted|Pos:#0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:#2|Opts:Crescendo
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1|Opts:Crescendo
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:2|Opts:Crescendo
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:3|Opts:Crescendo
|Dynamic|Style:ff|Opts:Velocity=125|Pos:7|Placement:BestFitForward|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:4|Opts:Diminuendo
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:3|Opts:Diminuendo
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:#2|Opts:Diminuendo
|Dynamic|Style:mf|Pos:9|Placement:BestFitForward|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:2
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:n2
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:1^
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-3
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-2
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:2
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-1
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-2
|TempoVariance|Style:Fermata|Pause:0|Pos:5|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:-3
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Now to the same with Rick G's Reply #2 clip. Notice how the beginning bar line in staves 2 and 3 appear, and that the measure numbers are incorrect.

Re: Section Close - Section Open Printing Problem

Reply #9 – 2006-01-03 02:15 am

You're right, my method trashes numbering. I would not have suggested it if I had known you needed measure numbers.

With an Orchestral staff, the section opens are ugly wherever they are placed. I should think that the (re)introduction of the TimeSig (without warning at the end of the previous line, which ends with a Section close), should be a fairly strong signal that this is a new section.

You can also indent the previous line from the right margin. The technique uses "digital white-out" which can't easily be shown in a clip. If you ask in the beta newsgroup, I can post an example.

Sorry I couldn't help more. Control over measure numbering is a long running request that I am tired of rehashing.