Played by NWC file sounds totally different... 2005-11-25 04:23 am Hello!I've faced the following problem. (I'm beginner at using NWC,+ my English langusge knowledge isn't so great, so I have read a lot of topics here, but just have got a headache)I have got a nice midi composition long before install NWC (was playing by WinAmp), but after opening by NWC I've listened something 'amaizing' - some instruments was, maybe, lost and so are being played by acoustic grand piano, percussion instrument just gave me up to despair... How to fix such problems? Some midi files more created the same problem... What am I doing wrong?Thanks in advance(I'm really sorry for my broken English, but therefor I used to ask you, friends, to use as simple as possible explanation, otherwise I afraid I cannot assimilate your precious advices) Quote Selected
Re: Played by NWC file sounds totally different... Reply #1 – 2005-11-25 07:03 am When you open the MIDI file in NWC, make sure the box is checked that says Insert Instrument Changes. NWC assigns MIDI channels in order to each new staff when you import a MIDI file, so a non-percussion instrument may have been assigned MIDI channel 10, which produces only percussion sounds. Select each staff one at a time and press F2 to bring up Staff Properties. Check that only percussion instruments are assigned MIDI channel 10. Change the channel off of 10 for any non-percussion instruments to an unused channel. Tools - Score Review can show you at a glance which MIDI channel each staff is using. Also in Import Options under Track Splitting Options set the Maximum single track chord size to at least 36 (3 octaves ) so as not to split single parts into 2 or more staves and so use up MIDI channels unnecessarily, not leaving enough to keep instrumental parts off of MIDI channel 10. You also will probably need to balance the parts for volume, since NWC sets the volume for all parts at 127 (max) on an import. Best way to control volume is not to change the volume, but to insert a Multi-Point Controller (MPC) for Expression at the beginning of each staff and adjust the value of that parameter instead. Quote Selected
Re: Played by NWC file sounds totally different... Reply #2 – 2005-11-25 07:05 am Welcome to the forum, Anna.You need to adjust the staff properties for each instrument so they play on different midi channels.Press F2 for staff properties. Select the instrument for the staff, then select the midi channel.Do the same for each staff, using F2. You can use the same channel on more than one staff as long as the instruments are the same. Also, you should only use channel 10 for percussion. Quote Selected
Re: Played by NWC file sounds totally different... Reply #3 – 2005-11-25 07:56 am Now, David, where's your memory?Look at your https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=5228.msg33522#msg33522 ! That makes Anna no less welcome, for sure.I do recognise the problem: if instruments are not assigned, then the soundcard remembers what has last been played on the channels. That may happen inside Noteworthy, but also in Midi. Quote Selected
Re: Played by NWC file sounds totally different... Reply #4 – 2005-11-25 06:17 pm Hi Rob,That was almost 2 months ago! I write quite a few messages, in forums and in email discussion groups, and deal with perhaps 30 emails a day at work, so I don't remember all of them. I guess I should be glad mine are memorable, eh? (grin)Memory issues aside, you assume this is the same Anna. I didn't make the connection, and merely responded to the correspondent's comment that she is new to NWC. I like newbies to feel welcome. Quote Selected
Re: Played by NWC file sounds totally different... Reply #5 – 2005-11-25 11:05 pm It has to be a different Anna - the two writing styles are totally different. Quote Selected
Re: Played by NWC file sounds totally different... Reply #6 – 2005-11-25 11:13 pm I wonder. It could still be the same Anna. Are you, Anna?But I found it rather funny. On the other hand, I did not mean to make fun of your hospitality, David. I laud and applaud it. Quote Selected
Re: Played by NWC file sounds totally different... Reply #8 – 2005-11-28 05:03 am Hello everybody!Thank you for responces and welcoming.Dear Rob den Heijer, actually, I couldn't catch what do you mean by saying "different Anna",so I guess that Anna was really different, I'm newbie indeed...Dear Milton, for percussion was assigned proper channel, checkbox on the beginning of importing midi file was checked, but instead of delectable percussion only clanks, whistle,etc.Also how to solve the problem: some instruments are lost on importing midi file??? Maybe those instruments just cannot be recognized by NWC... How to deal with it?Thanks Quote Selected
Re: Played by NWC file sounds totally different... Reply #9 – 2005-11-28 05:13 am Oh, I used to apologize...Dear Rob,I just tried to follow the link in your reply, and recognized, that whas really me! That was my first time in forum, now the second... What's up with my memory?! I'm sorry...Dear David, anyway thank you for welcoming!!! It really cheers up Quote Selected
Re: Played by NWC file sounds totally different... Reply #10 – 2005-11-29 09:57 am Dear Anna,Could you send the Midi-file to robdenheijer@hccnet.nl ?This might clear up matters a bit quicker.(the mail-address will cease to exist at the end of the year, so I am not bothered spelling it out, here)I am sure we will find answers and solutions.Funny thing, memory, don't you think?Rob. Quote Selected
Re: Played by NWC file sounds totally different... Reply #11 – 2005-11-29 10:00 am Greetings from Watson, Sherlock! Quote Selected
Re: Played by NWC file sounds totally different... Reply #12 – 2005-11-30 01:29 am Anna, what MIDI device are you using for playback? If it uses MIDI channel 16 instead of 10 for percussion (older sound cards sometimes use this) or if your "MIDI" device is not GM (General MIDI) compatible either of these could give the results you describe. If you are using an older synthesizer that is not GM compatible you may have to find a patch map for it. A patch map converts the GM patch numbers (that stand for instrument sounds) to the correct commands for your particular synthesizer. Post your MIDI device name to the board and maybe someone can point you to a patch map if that is the problem. Quote Selected
Re: Played by NWC file sounds totally different... Reply #13 – 2005-11-30 03:13 am I am at a loss... Quote Selected
Re: Played by NWC file sounds totally different... Reply #14 – 2005-12-06 03:03 am I'm really sorry, dear Sherlock! Dear Milton, how to know what kind of MIDI device am I using? (shameful, but honestly...) Quote Selected
Re: Played by NWC file sounds totally different... Reply #15 – 2005-12-06 05:27 am Anna, go to Tools - Options and click the MIDI tab. On the right you will see a box titled "Devices used by playback". The device(s) listed there is the one or ones that NWC is using to play sound. On the left is a box titled "Available play devices", which are all the other MIDI devices, if any, that you have not selected (or that NWC has selected by default) for playback. Post both lists of playback devices and maybe that will shed some light on the problem. Quote Selected
Re: Played by NWC file sounds totally different... Reply #16 – 2005-12-06 05:13 pm Just a couple of comments regarding the differences in sound.Regarding the sound source, first I would check what MIDI sound source was being used by WinAmp (since Anna said that it sounded fine in WinAmp). This is done by selecting "Options, Preferences", then highlight "Plug-ins, Input"on the left , and then in the selection box on the right highlight Nullsoft MIDI Player. Then click on Configure. Click on the "Device" tab and see which "MIDI-Out" device is being used. You can also change it to something different here (if you have multiple MIDI devices on your computer).Then, go into Noteworthy Composer and select "Tools, Options", then select the "MIDI" tab. Make sure the "device used by playback is the same device as that used by WinAmp. This should now get you closer to hearing the same sounds in both programs.You will get a conflict if you try to use both at the same time, so make sure only one of the applications is open at the same time.Regarding the actual sound: when Noteworthy Composer imports a MIDI file, it mainly just imports the notes, the time signature, the key signature, the lyrics, and I'm sure a few other things. What it doesn't import is the performance. You will lose all nuance of the music and find that every staff plays at maximum volume. It's up to you to re-apply the things that make it music (volume, staccato, tenuto, other note ornaments; dynamics and dynamic variance; tempo variance; etc.). It would be nice if NWC did that for you, but it doesn't. I suppose it could do it, but I imagine the resulting score could look pretty ugly (take a look at HTML code developed by FrontPage versus hand-coded HTML, as an analagy). I imagine it might would take just as long to clean up the import with all the ornaments as it would to add them back in. Now as long as the MIDI file properly defined channel assignments in the file, they should be properly mapped in NWC when you import. The main one that causes problems is channel 10, which is strictly the drum channel. I have never had a problem, however, having my imports mis-assign the channels, unless there is just something screwy in the MIDI file to start with.I know that was long-winded, but hopefully it helped a little. Quote Selected
Re: Played by NWC file sounds totally different... Reply #17 – 2005-12-06 07:24 pm Anna,I think we're there, now. If you have seen your mailbox, you already know.For you, and all others interested in the nature of the problem:The problem is, there were 16 staves to import, and every staff was assigned a channel. Staff number 10 was assigned channel 10 - so it was changed into percussion. Staff number 14, on the other hand, WAS the percussion staff, but was not, now. Swapping the channel-usage for staves 10 and 14 worked fine.Any more questions, Anna? The team is ready! Quote Selected
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