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Topic: G Sharp or A Flat? (Read 7995 times) previous topic - next topic

G Sharp or A Flat?

OK, so G Sharp plays the same as A Flat, but on a printed
sheet the wrong "spelling" looks really odd and can be very
hard to sing, depending on the key. How do I change a note
/ group of notes / whole staff so the C Sharps become
D Flats, etc. or vice versa?

Re: G Sharp or A Flat?

Reply #1 –
Chris - I agree - I have added an Enharmonic Tool to my wish list.
Then you could select a note, group of notes or a measure and change the accidental spelling.
My biggest beef if a flat chord in a sharp key - Like Eb7 in the key of C.
The notes spell D#7 - very nasty!!
Add your request to the wish list please.

Re: G Sharp or A Flat?

Reply #2 –
Hear Hear!

I wrote to Eric some time ago requesting that there should be default spellings for each key. So for instance in F major and D minor (one flat) you would get A and E flat, and C and F sharp by default when audit accidentals was performed or the notes were played in from a keyboard.

At the moment the dominant chord of D minor is notated A, Db, E which looks ridiculous. Sadly there has been no response.

Re: G Sharp or A Flat?

Reply #3 –
Yes again. I must add my weight to this wish. The manifestation of this problem that I like least is during staff tranpositions.

For example: a G# in the key of Bbmaj (6th note of the scale sharpened by one semitone) should transpose to a G double sharp in Bmaj. However the transpose tool (up one semitoine) makes it an A natural (seventh note of the scale flattened by one semitone). Transposing back again the A natural becomes an A flat, which is very confusing.

The transposition process should be purely mechanical. There is no ambiguity about the correspondence between the notes in one key and the notes in another.

I think the idea of default spellings would be a mistake. Sometimes I need a G# when I'm writing in Bb major and sometimes I need an A flat.

Moreover, a G# and an A flat don't always sound the same. Fixed pitch instruments don't have much option but to play them at the same pitch. However, for most wind instruments and unfretted strings a G# and and A flat will generally be played at different pitches - both of which will depend on the context, style of music, type of ensemble etc.

Re: G Sharp or A Flat?

Reply #4 –
No mechanical set of rules is perfect and of course sometimes you do need an enharmonic spelling in a particular key, especially if you have temporarily transposed to a different key without changing the key signature. But at least let us have the more probable spelling as the default, and edit the few occasions on which that is not required.
Playing in a sequence of mis-spelled chords, especially in a minor key is a right pain!

At the moment we do have a default spelling. If the key is flat then you get flats: similarly with sharp keys you get sharps. My point is that in the key of D minor it would be unusual to have a D flat, so when a note is played in from a midi keyboard the default should assume it is a C sharp, which would be correct 90% of the time.

Re: G Sharp or A Flat?

Reply #5 –
Yes, I see your point about the default during data entry.

It seems we need two types of default - during tranposition the default should be to get it right - there is only one way of doing it (however, sometimes its kinder on the players to use enharmonic changes to reduce the number of double accidentals).

During data entry the default has to use a bit more intelligence: in d minor a C# is more likely; in F maj, I would put my money on it being a D flat (during a temporary excursion to Ab maj.). Thus NWC has to know whether to expect notes in the major or relative minor key. At present I don't think it takes any notice - even though the key signatures of both are included in the insert key signature tool. (Note it is even possible to create your own key signature - e.g. a Bb and a C# for a piece in Dminor. It looks odd but works.)

Is there a good algorithm for deciding which spelling is most likely?

Re: G Sharp or A Flat?

Reply #6 –
Another problem that default mechanical translation of
accidentals during transposition would solve:

I seem to recall that there is a restriction about certain
combinations of notes a semitone apart during transposition.
Obviously it's because, say, if you had a B and a C and a
Db together in a piece and transposed it up a semitone,
you'd get C and C# and D, or C and Db and D, neither of
which can be represented on a single staff. However, it
should be possible with the suggestion made above, because
that could result in B# and C# and D, for example.

There are probably cases that can't be helped, though.

Which brings me to a new point: can you have, say, a
C and a C# together (same position, same staff)? I know
that you can have 2 C's now....

Re: G Sharp or A Flat?

Reply #7 –
This is probably going to generate more heat than light!
I always thought that that when an accidental fell into a group of upward moving notes it became a sharp. But in a group od downward moving notes it was generally a flat.

But I am probanly wrong.

Arthur Archer
UK

Re: G Sharp or A Flat?

Reply #8 –
Add my name. I've had some problems myself, and met with nothing but frustration in what is otherwise a wonderful piece of software.

Re: G Sharp or A Flat?

Reply #9 –
I would like to be able to select a note and use a key-press to change to the enharmonic alternate, to make it easier for instrumentalists to read chromatic sequences in their parts. In "pop" or "Jazz" the harmonies often follow the circle of fifths, which is like changing the key with each new chord.