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Memory conflicts

I suspect this is a problem with Norton Internet Security screwing up my memory, but in Version 2 I'm once again getting the situation where I can't move the insertion point without it causing everything between the start point and the destination to be highlighted.

Print preview is also not working - keeps saying it can't run without a default printer being installed, yet I have a default printer set up.

This will all sort itself out when I reboot, but is a nuisance.

I'm running Win98, NWC2 (latest public preview) on a pc clone.  My printer is a cheap Samsung laser which has until now worked very well with NWC2.  I've had a couple of other programs reporting they don't find a printer since I installed NIS, so I suspect my problems are due to NIS, not NWC related.

Is anyone else experiencing these issues? If so, what operating system do you use, and do you use Norton or something else?

Re: Memory conflicts

Reply #1 –
Hi David,
in my business we often come up against Windows not behaving...

There are two very easy areas to check first but do require a bit of work at the DOS prompt so if you are happy to give it a go...

The first thing to do is identify your "temp" directory.  Now in W98 this is usually "c:\windows\temp" but can be changed.

To confirm please launch a command prompt window and type "set <Enter>".  The resulting display will have a line somewhere that looks like this:

TEMP=C:\WINDOWS\TEMP

Note the directory path.

Next, restart the machine in MSDOS mode.

Change to the parent directory of the the temp location.  In our example the command is:

CD C:\WINDOWS <Enter>

Your prompt should now show as:
C:\WINDOWS>

Next, rename the temp directory:
MOVE TEMP TEMP.OLD <Enter>

Create a new temp directory:
MD TEMP <Enter>

This action creates a new temp location in case the old one is corrupt.

DO NOT MISS THIS STEP.  Windows doesn't like not having a temp directory...

It is often a good idea to also delete the swap file:
DEL WIN386.SWP <Enter>

Restart the machine in Windows and see if the problem is resolved (Windows is a baaad house keeper and the temp directory is often left filled with junk.  The worst one we've seen is some 28,000 temp files and it only takes one corrupt one to crash the box.)

You can now delete the old TEMP (temp.old) directory if you like.

If everything is working then OK, otherwise try this next step:

Restart in MSDOS mode again.

Change to your windows directory:
CD C:\WINDOWS <Enter>

Run smartdrv and doskey:
SMARTDRV <Enter>
DOSKEY <Enter>

DOSkey allows you to edit the previous command lines and reuse them, if you know how to use it then good, otherwise you can skip loading it, I will not cover its use in this explanation.

Remove the "read only, system, hidden" attributes from the registry files:

ATTRIB SYSTEM.DAT -R -S -H <Enter>
ATTRIB USER.DAT -R -S -H <Enter>
Don't leave out the spaces...

Copy these files to a safe location, I usually change the extensions E.G.
COPY SYSTEM.DAT SYSTEM.LS1 <Enter>
COPY USER.DAT USER.LU1 <Enter>

The L is for Lawrie, the S or U denotes System or User hive and the 1 is the number of times I've done it on this machine.

Next we export the registry to a text file:
REGEDIT /E SYSTEM.LR1 <Enter>

This time the R denotes that this is a registry text file.  It will also take some time depending on how complex your registry is and how fast your PC is.  NB there is NO progress indicator so don't get impatient thinking its locked up.  If you're unsure, check the HDD light - it will flash erratically...

Then re-import:
REGEDIT /C SYSTEM.LR1 <Enter>

This time there is a progress indicator.  If you get to 100% without error then good, if not the machine _should_ revert to the original registry.

If it does not revert properly then we need to copy back the preservation copies we made:

You can confirm the registry reversion with the following command:
DIR SYSTEM.* /A <Enter>

This will give you a display that shows ALL files that start with SYSTEM.  Simply compare the size of the SYSTEM.DAT with your preservation copy (SYSTEM.LS1 in this example).  If the sizes are the same you are OK, if not then:

NB, if the import worked correctly then the files WILL be different sizes, the new ones are usually smaller though I have seen them grow.  If you reached 100% with out error then do NOT revert them manualy as described next.  Instead restart your computer, you're done.

IF and only if the import failed and the registry did not revert:
Again, remove the "read only, system, hidden" attributes from the registry files (Regedit will have restored them):

ATTRIB SYSTEM.DAT -R -S -H <Enter>
ATTRIB USER.DAT -R -S -H <Enter>
Don't leave out the spaces...

Copy the files from our previously created safe location. In our example:
COPY SYSTEM.LS1 SYSTEM.DAT <Enter>
COPY USER.LU1 USER.DAT <Enter>

Confirm overwrite when prompted.
This will copy the preservation copies over the current registry files thus restoring them to before we started this excercise.

Restart Windows and confirm operation.

If it is still not resolved then a _much_ closer look at NIS is indicated.

The techniques described here will work for Win95 and Win98.  They are incomplete for WinME as ME has an additional hive (I forget its name, we never touch ME except to backrev to '98 or upgrade to XP).  THEY WILL NOT WORK FOR NT BASED SYSTEMS (NT3, NT4, Win2k, XP etc.)

David, if you are not comfortable with this I urge you to seek assistance from a friend.  Playing with the registry can break your computer.

Hope this is helpful,
Lawrie

Re: Memory conflicts

Reply #2 –
Hi David, I am running Win 98 with NWC2 1i without any problems. (Not NIS)
I installed Norton Personal Firewall 2002 (not NIS) back in 2002, but removed it within a year. I found it to be extremely resource hungry. Also,  other problems, such as locking up, and running slow.
I am still running Norton Antivirus, a stand-alone prog which is pre-NIS.

I de-installed Norton PF after one year, now running a much simpler firewall, without the 'bells and whistles'.

I suspect the only way you will cure your problem is to de-install either NIS, or NWC, or both, then re-install.
I think Windows 98 struggles when running Norton, they don't call it 'Bloatware' for nothing.

Re: Memory conflicts

Reply #3 –
Lawrie, thank you for all the information.  I'm going to cautiously consider trying it, but I'm nervous about screwing up.

Frank, your experience matches that of a friend last year.  I think also that my problems are due to the memory taken up by NIS, probably the firewall.

Installing NIS was a nightmare.  When I bought my big hard drive a couple of years ago, I kept the smaller one as a slave drive.  The store ghosted everything across, but installed NAV2003 instead of keeping my NAV2001.  Since I didn't have a licence for 2003, I uninstalled it and reinstalled 2001.  So installing NIS2005, I uninstalled NAV2001 as directed, and started a litany of problems.  After about 9 or 10 hours, I gave up and called Symantec.  Spoke on long distance for 45 minutes to a lady in India, then the call ended in mid-sentence.  I called back and asked for a toll-free number.  It took 10 or 15 minutes for the guy to tell me to call 1-800 - but he didn't know there should be another 7 digits to follow that.  I finally called the number in Symantec's online help - the one that says they charge a minimum of $29 unless they decide to waive the charge - I was then on the phone with Symantec's person, again on the other side of the world, for 4 hours, using various programs he sent me, uninstalling, reinstalling, editing the registry, etc. etc.  The problem was I kept getting two error messages every time I booted.

We finally gave up.  He sent some additional info the next morning by email, and after a couple more evenings, I finally got the installation working properly.  Except for these memory issues.

Anyway, Symantec's support people are excellent - great service.  I think the problem is that, like many programs, the developers have made it too powerful and complicated, which just creates more problems.

Enough of my rant.  It's Mother's Day, so we're off to a family celebration in a few minutes.

Once again, thank you to both Lawrie and Frank.

Re: Memory conflicts

Reply #4 –
David,
I installed NIS a few months ago and it has slowed quite a few things down a bit, but I don't get the behavior you describe (no problems with NWC that I haven't had before the install).
NIS is worth it though, because I've had ZERO pop-ups since install, the weekly scan is faster/more efficient, etc.

Re: Memory conflicts

Reply #5 –
I have memory conflicts every day...
 

Re: Memory conflicts

Reply #6 –
Hi David,
now I'm a bit more awake...

The things I've suggested have about an 80% success rate in fixing obscure problems that seemingly have no identifiable cause.  They are not a cure all but are useful excercises.

In fact, when we service a W9x machine these steps are the first we take.  It is unlikely that you will break your computer by doing these things, but if you follow the steps you will have a "backout path" should you need it.

When I still ran a Win9x box I used to perform these steps approximately monthly.

The second process I described above is in reality a database unload, reload sequence.  Appropriate given that the registry is simply a (rather fragile) database.

As for NIS.  We tend to avoid Symantec products where possible.  Our experience has been that there are often too many conflicts with existing products usually causing those products to break.

A cleanskin install is normally OK but even that isn't guaranteed.  As Frank said; Bloatware.  Fat, slow and inadequately tested before release. (IMHO)

Let me hasten to add, Symantec aren't alone.  There are several well known software houses that release software in the same condition and in fairness, they can hardly be expected to test against every possible product that a user might have installed.  Nevertheless...

Personally, I lost confidence in Norton branded software the day Peter Norton stopped writing it...

It is a fair comment that powerful products can be complicated to use, however, our own experience with NWC shows that a well designed user interface can overcome most of those complications (difficulties).

Gary S. suggested that he's had zero pop-ups since installation.  This is good, unless, like me, there are some sites you need to access that need to have pop-ups working.

That's when tuning pop-up killers can become a necessary (evil) excercise.

While we're on personal firewalls.  These are useful things, but if you can unload the firewall function onto an appliance so much the better.  Those who are on ADSL are either using a modem and "dialler" in their PC or are using a modem/router appliance.  If the latter, then good.  You will already have a NAT (Network Address Translation) gateway in place.  If the former, invest in an upgrade to a NAT router and get rid of the dialler.

Those using good ol' dial-up.  There are devices out there that will perform the dialling function for you and allow you to connect via ethernet.  These devices are also capable of NAT routing.  Get one if you can.  Make sure it is capable of SPI (Stateful Packet Inspection).  That also applies to ADSL routers.

A NAT gateway isn't the answer to everything, won't kill pop-ups for instance, but will prevent many other kinds of TCP/IP exploits.

Another good area to proactively manage is spyware.  We have seen perfectly good systems effectively destroyed from a performance perspective by just a few spyware products.  Remove them and everything comes good again.  Of course, don't forget your anti-virus products.

All these things cost processing time and other resources...

As for memory.  Two areas to consider:
1) Hard disk space - at least 20%/500 meg free at all times, more is better.  An occasional defrag doesn't hurt either, but have a good back-up, "just in case".
2) Win98 has a "sweet spot" at around 128 meg of ram.  Do not have more than 256 meg total.  Win98's memory management screws up after this point and performance can deteriorate markedly.  Win95 is exactly half these amounts.

Win2k/XP is good at 512 meg and doesn't seem to gain much advantage above this unless you are using a product that is specifically memory aware and hungry.  Adobe's "Premiere" video editing software is a good example of this kind of product.

Lawrie.