Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Layering Sop and Alto - quavers (eighth notes) become semiquaver (Read 4653 times) previous topic - next topic

Layering Sop and Alto - quavers (eighth notes) become semiquaver

I have entered 4 staves of vocal music (sop, alto, tenor bass) and wish to print them as 2 staves, so I use layering.  I then have the problem that 2 quavers, when super-imposed appear as a note of shorter duration.

One suggested solution is to point the stems in different directions in the two parts, but this is liable to make the bass and treble lines run into each other unless I make the staves a lot deeper.

I know that I could have put Sop and Alto onto a single stave, using chords, but then I cannot manipulate the lines of music separately (perhaps to cut and paste).

What do other people do?  I suppose I would really like the layering process to handle this for me.

Re: Layering Sop and Alto - quavers (eighth notes) become semiquaver

Reply #1 –
As you say yourself, the usual solution is to set soprano & tenor notes with stem up, and bass & alto notes with stem down.
You may set up S&A lyrics above the (common or layered) staff, and T&B lyrics below the system. That way you can again reduce the interval needed between the SA / TB staves.
I usually can have 5 to 7 system of 2 staves per page using staff size 19 (with lyrics below each staff), so it should be okay.
Don't forget to minimize the space where you can (below the bass & above the soprano staves).
I think that if you search this forum (or better, search the site with the word "layering" you'll get some interesting results.
HTH!

Re: Layering Sop and Alto - quavers (eighth notes) become semiquaver

Reply #2 –
Andrew: I regularly use NWC1.75 for SATB. Usually, I use both layers and chords, just as you did. I don't know of a better way.

Re: Layering Sop and Alto - quavers (eighth notes) become semiquaver

Reply #3 –
It seems what you're saying is that by having Sop and Alt on the same staff, say a third or so apart,  with tails both pointing the same way,  the flags make a quaver look like a semi-quaver because the stems correspond. You can move either note sideways if you want so that there is no confusion.(Select\Right-click\Properties\Extra note spacing). Will that help?

Re: Layering Sop and Alto - quavers (eighth notes) become semiquaver

Reply #4 –
llucyy: No, you misunderstood (or, I misunderstood you).

If the notes are actually on the SAME staff, with tails pointing the same way, there is no problem. The problem occurs when the notes are on two different (layered) staves, with tails pointing the same way. Then, each note keeps its own flag, so the flags accumulate.

I suppose that a "hide flag" property would work, but to my knowlege nobody has requested it, since the solution already exists by another method. The "layering" feature is for solving problems that cannot be done on one staff. But on one staff, the parallel-flag problem doesn't exist.

Re: Layering Sop and Alto - quavers (eighth notes) become semiquaver

Reply #5 –
I remember that the beam overlapping was used to make notes that look like 128th, thanks to Simon C. Look https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=2377 :)
(the correct link I give on reply 1 should be Tips, but that section is below the link given. The "this file" link there should be "saved as" instead of opened.)

FWIW...

Re: Layering Sop and Alto - quavers (eighth notes) become semiquaver

Reply #6 –
I would imagine that it would be possible for NWC to have a rule:  Where staffs are layered, if a lower staff has a note in the same position and of the same duration as a note on a higher staff, with the stem in the same direction, that note should be regarded (for display and printing) as being on that higher staff, and should therefore lose its stem.

Not too hard to specify, but no doubt fiddly to program, and maybe there are counter-examples where this would not produce the desired effect.

Re: Layering Sop and Alto - quavers (eighth notes) become semiquaver

Reply #7 –
A "hide beam" instruction would be simpler, and have other applications. A "hide beam and stem" instruction would be even better, because then you could use it for chants and things. Sometimes you'd have a head stranded too far

Since the beam and notehead are, I think, separate elements, this shouldn't be too hard. And if there was also a "hide notehead" instruction", we could use it for rhythmic notation, tablature, and drum parts (with text x's), all without having to change the program around much.

Okay, I'm off to the wish list.

Re: Layering Sop and Alto - quavers (eighth notes) become semiquaver

Reply #8 –
Thanks John.  But I'm not sure that a "Hide beam" instruction would resolve the problem. In lots of cases the notes don't have beams - they are indicated as quavers by a wavy diagonal at the top of the stem.

Basically I have 2 quavers on different staves, and when I layer them they display and print as a semiquaver.  It really seems like a bug in the Noteworthy Layering function.

Andrew M.
 

Re: Layering Sop and Alto - quavers (eighth notes) become semiquaver

Reply #9 –
Yes and no. Layering merely superposes the visual images. The notes do not change their duration - they just look like it.

Solution: Rather than think in terms of "soprano staff" and "alto staff," think in terms of "common staff" and "difference staff."

The "common staff" has the soprano notes, all with stems upwards. Wherever the alto notes can be chorded (also stems upwards), put them on this staff.

In cases where the alto notes are sufficiently different from soprano that they cannot be chorded - either too far apart in pitch, or moving at different durations - put the alto notes stem-down on the difference staff. You will need to add invisible rests (or invisible and muted notes) to fill the measures and keep notes aligned.

That's how I do it.