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repeat signs/playback/breathmarks

Two questions and an observation:
1. I encountered an interesting problem over the weekend. Have a choral piece that starts with a pickup note, and needs to repeat the first section before going on to the "refrain." So, I put in a repeat sign to indicate the repeat. Apparently, since repeat signs are considered to be "decorated bar lines" in NWC, the program counted the pickup note like a full measure, thereby throwing off the measure count by one bar. This piece is "hymn-like" in construction, so it's measured in sections of 8 bars each. The pickup needs not to be considered a full bar. Any way to work around this?

2. In this same choral piece, my piano part is not included with the choral parts, because it's for rehearsal only. The piano part plays back nicely. The SATB is notated with the tenor in treble clef, an octave higher than the voices will sound. Playback is, therefore, skewed, since the tenor is written in that higher octave. So, the question is, when I write pieces for chorus or transposing instruments, will I have to have two versions - one at concert pitch, the other at written pitch? Yes, I have a Yamaha keyboard, also a "regular" piano, but I really enjoy hearing the computer playback, so I can listen without also working. Sometimes I can catch things that way that I might miss otherwise.

Observation for anyone who can use it: Here and there in the same piece, I put in some breath marks. In order for the playback to sound right (by the way, SATB is notated in open score), the Soprano breath mark can have a notation (i.e., 16th note) but breath marks on the other staffs need to be marked "0". Otherwise, you get a playback in which each staff gets its own 16th note breath in succession! Just a little bit skewed! (Printout is fine.)

Re: repeat signs/playback/breathmarks

Reply #1 –
1: Put the Repeat Open barline after the pickup note. Then repeat the pickup note at the end of the last bar to be repeated. Often, the last time through you *don't* want the pickup, since it goes on to the next section. In this case, you'll have to use the "Master Repeat" open and close, which allow first, second... etc. endings. The drawback to the master repeat is that you can have only one per piece. The *big* advantage is that you can use it in conjuntion with DS, DS al coda, DC al fine, etc.

2: I had the same problem with guitar voicings, which too are written an octave higher than played. Solution is easy -- when you select your clef, click on the Octave Lower option button.

3: You can use Insert Text to insert an apostrophe (in whatever font you desire) which will indicate the breath in the score without introducing a delay. Any of these subtle timing variations (breath mark, fermata, grace note) are difficult to use, since there's no way of setting the duration of these events... yet.

Re: repeat signs/playback/breathmarks

Reply #2 –
Carolyn - You can change where the bar numbers start counting in the Page Setup - but I guess that is not the problem you describe.
As for the second problem - you can notate a voice an octave higher but set the MIDI pitch an octave (or 2) lower in the Staff-Staff Properties-Midi-Transposition dialogue box.
It's possible to write in transposed score and still here sound at concert pitch using this method.
For example I write Baritone Sax at it's written pitch in treble clef - but set the MIDI sound to -21 semitones so it sounds at correct concert pitch.

Re: repeat signs/playback/breathmarks

Reply #3 –
Carolyn,

It's common practice not to include the anacrusis (pickup note) in choral music repeats, so follow Fred's advice here. Also for the Clef transposition use the option button - this too is standard practice in modern scores. (Unlike some medieval music where the tenor line is often written in natural treble clef with umpteen ledger lines below the stave - very difficult to follow without lots of practice!) Regarding the music sounding right, you may find https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=506 of interest, the use of a seperate tempo stave can be very effective. You can still have your breath marks in the score, but set with zero duration, and when you print out your score leave out the tempo stave in Page Setup.
Regards, Peter.

Re: repeat signs/playback/breathmarks

Reply #4 –
Okay, we're making some progress. For Text reasons, the best solution was to have a First and Second ending, using the Master Close. (By the way, since the repeat section starts at the beginning, it's not necessary to have a Repeat Open symbol at the beginning of the piece, thereby eliminating a rather disconcerting visual symbol.) The First & Second endingts worked fine and the bars numbered better. But I was using full measures-there was no partial measure to count as a whole measure. Recall that this is an open vocal score - SATB - four staves. I am somewhat dismayed that the first and second ending numbers and brackets will only print on the top (Soprano) staff. I can cut and paste before making performance copies, so each staff has its own symbols, but I'd rather not. Any way around that? Is this a Wish List item? Could it be an available printing option?

Re: repeat signs/playback/breathmarks

Reply #5 –
Carolyn,
what is the trouble with your 4-staves numbering ?
AFAIK, all scores are always numbered only on the higher staff.
  ° If you want each staff to be numbered, AND printed all at the same time, then YES, add this to wish list (more present an item is, more chances it got to be realized ;-)
  ° If you want each staff to be numbered, AND print one booklet per voice (typically used in orchestras), then no change needed. NWC handles this fine.

Do not forget to add this (having such items to each staff) on the wish list.
Though I do not see why it is so much needed : one can use one eye to read lyrics, the 2nd to read notes (one measure ahead), the 3rd to read Soprano items, and the last to look at the conductor ;-)

NWCly yours
            Dominique

Re: repeat signs/playback/breathmarks

Reply #6 –
This all began when I tried to insert a repeat sign into a vocal score, SATB open score. I inserted the repeat sign after the second beat (3/4 time) of bar #8, expecting the verse to repeat from the upbeat at the beginning of the piece. It did that, but the BAR NUMBERS GOT MESSED UP because NWC considered the first two beats of bar #8 to be bar #8, and the last beat of the bar (which is the upbeat to the next section) to be measure #9. That struck me as kind of dumb, so I wanted a solution. The solution was to do the first & second ending (thanks to Fred). Everything is okay now, I think. All bars are numbered fine. I just think it could be confusing to the performers when their own staff is not marked well, and no doubt they will mark up their scores! At any rate, thanks to everyone for the responses. The printout looks fantastic!
 

Re: repeat signs/playback/breathmarks

Reply #7 –
How do you follow the D.S. al coda?