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my great idea

Hi All,
I have a dream about a collection of wonderful pieces written on one musical theme by lot of composer.
I`ve started to realize my dream on my homepage. (Compose Together Variations)If somodody belive that it could be a good game, and want to help me, please visit my website for the details:
http://preiszner.tripod.com/preiszner/id7.html
I hope that we will have a good fun!
Happy new year to Everybody!

Miklós

Re: my great idea

Reply #1 –
It seems interesting :)
Maybe you could define two types of themes : one "easy" for non-trained composers, and another a bit more complex for advanced composers. Though your theme with 4 notes can be developped very "far" (such as the B-A-C-H(Bb) signature, or in the Musikalisches Opfer (Musical Offering))

Did you mention it on the NWC NG? I know people there who can be interested :)

Happy new musical year!

Re: my great idea

Reply #2 –
Hello Marsu,
You are absolutely right. Now I see that "theme" is a very coplex idea. I`ve decided to separete themes at least two category: well-known calssical theme, never-heard new theme. I agree with you, but can you write me what do you think about,what kind of themes could be easy? (for example - IMHO - to compose a piece on a famous clasiccal theme is much more harder than on a new theme)
I am sure that there will be more "winner" theme.
Thank you for your comment!! I will think about your though. Please write me anytime if you have any other comment!
Thank you again!
Happy New Year!!

Miklós

Re: my great idea

Reply #3 –
Pedantically, BACH is Bb A C B ;-)

Re: my great idea

Reply #4 –
Oops!! You're right Peter, it's not B that is B, it's H :)

About themes, Miklós, in fact a "well known" them *may* be used more easily. For ex., refer at "Mica Mica parva stella" (in latin), aka "twinkle twinkle little star", aka (in french) "Ah! vous dirais-je, Maman", on which Mozart (W.A.) did a lot of brilliant variations for piano (I never could go further than 3rd var.).
IMHO, for fuga variations, the shorter the theme, the easiest to play with.

the sole limits are the personal ones :)

Re: my great idea

Reply #5 –
You are right, Marsu. You`ve convinced me. The variability of a theme is not depends on that how known it. The variability maybe depends on the charachteristic parts of the theme, the less the better.
Your though about the fuga variations is very valuable. Maybe I should make a separated section for contrapunctal themes. (there will be more cathegory than theme:)

Miklós

Re: my great idea

Reply #6 –
Miklós, I visited your site last night and looked at the themes posted so far. I think there's a useful distinction to be made between themes and motives. For example, I would call the "BACH" a motive, not a theme, and I would have a hard time coming up with a way to write a "variation" on it. For example, you could call "HACB" a variation on "BACH", but this doesn't take you very far. To make a piece out of this, you could extend it by adding further variations on the motive, but now you're developing, not varying. (It's hard to imagine calling the first movement of Beethoven's 5th a set of variations on da-da-da-DUM.)

The traditional set of variations has as its theme a fully developed melody, generally in the form of a complete period, that contains enough interesting features so that some can be held more or less constant (so that variations can be recognized as being related to the theme) and some can be changed. Which features are held constant and which are changed in each variation is the choice of the composer, but in general there can't be so few that the variations can no longer be related back to the theme. Take a look at any of the great variation sets and you'll see that their themes are fully developed in this way: for example, see Bach's "Goldberg" Variations; Mozart's K. 331, 1st movement; Beethoven's "Eroica" and "Diabelli" Variations; Brahms's "Handel" and "Haydn" Variations; and so on.

(One exception to the above is the Passacaglia or Chaconne type of continuous variations, where the variations take place in the context of a continuously repeating bass line or harmonic pattern which is often only a few measures long. But you're not proposing that we write variations of this type.)

Of the 5 themes currently posted on your site, I would say that only #1 fits the model of the "traditional" theme for variations. #3 and #4 are, I think, just marginally long enough to make a successful set of variations out of (although I love the Bartók excerpt and have considered in the past using this for a set of variations of my own). On the other hand, #2 and #5 are IMHO much too short for variations - though obviously they're prime candidates for development.

Re: my great idea

Reply #7 –
Hello Grant,
Thank`s for your really considered comments, it is very useful for me. I see that I`ve drafted my idea in a wrong way, beacause I didn`t want to develop a "classical variation serie", my only idea was lot of muisic on one musical "though". This though could be a classical period (and we can make real variations on it)or just some note that we can`t vary, that only can inspire us to develop longer though from it, or I think - in an extreme situation - the "papapa pam" from the 5th can be a though for us for make music on it. So, thank you for noticed me, beacause I`ve used "variation" expression very misunderstandable way. I am sure that I will separete "themes" to two cathegory: "short musical thoughs, mottos" and "periods, full melodies". The first cathegory is for contrapunctal works (fuga, passacaglia bass etc...)the second for "variations" (in classical meaning)
Any comments, about it?
It was a good idea, to write to this forum!:)
Thank you!

Miklós

Re: my great idea

Reply #8 –
Thanks for clearing this up, Miklós. Even if you are guilty of drafting your idea in the wrong way, I suspect I'm just as guilty of misinterpreting what you wrote based on my own assumptions about the word "variations". In any event, I'm certainly familiar with the idea of a set of pieces based on the same short musical "germ" (see my "Little Star" Suite on the Scriptorium, which is a set of 5 short pieces -- NOT "variations" -- all based on the head motive of "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star").

(Vaughan Williams used the term "variants" for one of his works, indicating that it wasn't intended to be a set of formal variations. This might be a useful term to use in this context.)

Do you anticipate choosing two themes for the project, one from the "melody" class and one from the "motive" class? Or will there after all be just one theme chosen?

Re: my great idea

Reply #9 –
I'm glad to help. (And thank you for your kind comments on the Suite. It's always nice to hear appreciative words from a discerning listener.)
 

Re: my great idea

Reply #10 –
Hello Grant,
Of course there will be two winners. One-one from both cathegory. Thanks for noticed me! I`ve fixed it on my page.
You`ve helped me a lot!! Thank you! (your "Little star" quartet is wonderful, I especially appreciated the french style Overture and the fugue with that nice augmentation at the and)

Miklós