another @#!* slur problem

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another @#!* slur problem

2008-01-17 05:21 pm

View the attached clip (part of a flute part) in both the editing and print preview modes. Note how in the editor the slur ends at the note head, while in print preview it ends at the top of the stem.

Quote

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:Whole,Slur|Pos:7^
|Dynamic|Style:mp|Pos:-10|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:7|Opts:Stem=Down,Diminuendo,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:8|Opts:Stem=Down,Diminuendo,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:7|Opts:Stem=Down,Diminuendo,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:#5|Opts:Stem=Down,Diminuendo,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:6|Opts:Stem=Down,Diminuendo,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down,Diminuendo,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=First,Slur|Pos:n4|Opts:Stem=Down,Diminuendo,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet,Slur|Pos:3|Opts:Stem=Down,Diminuendo,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Triplet=End,Slur|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Diminuendo,Beam=End
|Bar
|Dynamic|Style:p|Pos:-9
|Note|Dur:Whole,Slur|Pos:-1^
|Bar|SysBreak:Y
|Note|Dur:Whole,Slur|Pos:-1^
|Bar
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:b0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-1
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

In the first place, this is inconsistent; and in the second place, both of them are wrong. In this situation, the slur should end partway up the stem.

This slur is also way too flat, and it starts at the wrong place after the system break.

All of this can be fixed with workarounds, and I will do so. I didn't put it here to ask for help; I just thought it was time for another example of why improving the @#!* slurs is the number one priority of most of us who visit this forum.

Cheers (I think),

Bill

Re: another @#!* slur problem

Reply #1 – 2008-01-17 06:47 pm

The first problem is easily fixed with a hidden, headless grace note placed after the first note:

Quote

|Note|Dur:4th,Grace|Pos:10z|Opts:StemLength=2,NoLegerLines,Muted|Visibility:Never

IMO, this is superior to any likely programatic fix. I would rather that NWC2 err on the side of flatness since more curvature is so easy to add.

The slur start on the second line should be fixed in NWC2. It is always a typographical error.

Re: another @#!* slur problem

Reply #2 – 2008-01-17 09:23 pm

Hmm, this goes back to the thread where I mentioned that I'd like some "handles" on the slurs so's we could control start, end and curvature.

I still stand by this request.

See also discussion https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=6185.0

Re: another @#!* slur problem

Reply #3 – 2008-01-18 04:15 am

In the score, I used a couple of invisible grace notes to shape the curve of the slur and a headless whole note without ledger lines, inserted as a chord tone, to lift the head end of the slur on the second system off the top line of the staff. (The playback is on a hidden staff). I elected to just swear at the improperly positioned tail end of the slur. I left that all out of the posted example to avoid confusing newbies. And, yes, Rick, I agree with you: I would rather have the program err on the side of flatness. I just wish it wouldn't err quite so far, quite so often. And the heads and tails of the slurs really need to be under better control, as Lawrie has pointed out. Several times.

But the real point of launching this thread was to point to the discrepancy between the editor and print preview in the matter of the position of the tail end of the slur. I think that qualifies as a bug, or at least a buglet. I'm sorry that it got lost in my general frustration with NWC's handling of slurs.

Bill

Re: another @#!* slur problem

Reply #4 – 2008-01-18 01:07 pm

Perhaps this shows it better:

Quote

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:Whole,Slur|Pos:0
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole,Slur|Pos:-1
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Rest|Dur:Half
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Whole,Slur|Pos:0
|Bar|SysBreak:Y
|Note|Dur:Whole,Slur|Pos:-1
|Bar
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up
|Rest|Dur:Half
|Bar|SysBreak:Y
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

And I agree. This is a bug.
There may be circumstances where Print Preview will vary from the Editor due to a SysBreak, but I can't see a reason here.

Re: another @#!* slur problem

Reply #5 – 2008-02-07 09:57 am

There is a bit of variance between Editor and Preview in this:

Code: [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:Half,Slur|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:6x|Opts:XNoteSpace=3,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Half,Slur|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:6x|Opts:XNoteSpace=2,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:6x|Opts:XNoteSpace=2,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:Half,Slur|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:6x|Opts:XNoteSpace=1,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:6x|Opts:XNoteSpace=1,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:6x|Opts:XNoteSpace=1,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
|Note|Dur:Half,Slur|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:6x|Opts:Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:6x|Opts:Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:0
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:6x|Opts:Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Yes, I know it is contrived, but still...

this has been fixed.

Re: another @#!* slur problem

Reply #6 – 2008-02-07 04:52 pm

"A bit of variance" is an understatement. This certainly shows how much improvement is still needed in the slur algorhythms.

Re: another @#!* slur problem

Reply #7 – 2009-03-06 04:55 pm

I just stumbled across this mess:

Quote

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Chord|Dur:8th,Dotted,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First|Dur2:4th|Pos2:-3
|Note|Dur:16th,Staccato|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End,ArticulationsOnStem
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

This is just barely recognizable as a slur.

When a slur ends on an articulation, it should end horizontally at the center of the articulation. I cannot think of an exception. Additionally, NWC's default vertical location is much too high.

In the attached picture, the first pair is from the clip while the others are some layered variations.

Re: another @#!* slur problem

Reply #8 – 2009-03-06 05:03 pm

Interesting. Looks like a drunken fermata.