A small Bugette?

Topic: A small Bugette? (Read 6539 times) previous topic - next topic

A small Bugette?

2014-02-18 03:24 pm

Have a look at this series of beamed notes.

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.51,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Chord|Dur:16th,Dotted|Pos:-10,-7,-5|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:32nd|Pos:4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:0,7|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

They look fine.
Now remove the dot augmentation from the first chord so that the chord is not dotted at all and look what happens to the flags of the second note.

Surely this is a small bug. The flags should not point to the right should they ?

Re: A small Bugette?

Reply #1 – 2014-02-18 08:43 pm

Definitely a bug. It looks as though when the dot is removed, the note head and stem are moved left to compensate but the beams are ignored. If you construct this motif from the ground up, the beams are properly placed.

Re:Partial Beam (beamlet) direction

Reply #2 – 2014-02-18 08:55 pm

Quote from: Richard Woodroffe – 2014-02-18 03:24 pm

Surely this is a small bug. The flags should not point to the right should they ?

Quote from: William Ashworth – 2014-02-18 08:43 pm

Definitely a bug.

Hard to say. I would need a full measure of notation with a time signature to be sure.

Re:Partial Beam (beamlet) direction

Reply #3 – 2014-02-18 09:09 pm

Quote from: Rick G. – 2014-02-18 08:55 pm

Hard to say. I would need a full measure of notation with a time signature to be sure.

Here is where I first spotted it - And just thought that's strange. Didn't think more if it until checking later I spotted a similar set but with the dot augmentation where the flags pointed in what I considered to be correctly. That's when I thought I would post it here for opinion.

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.51,Single)
|Bar
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:5,7|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:32nd|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam,XNoteSpace=1
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:9|Opts:Stem=Up,StemLength=8,Beam=End
|Rest|Dur:32nd|Opts:VertOffset=-2000
|Chord|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:n3,5,7,9|Opts:Stem=Down
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:#2^,4^,6^,8^|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=11
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:#2,4,6,8|Opts:Stem=Down
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Re:Partial Beam (beamlet) direction

Reply #4 – 2014-02-18 10:26 pm

Quote from: Richard Woodroffe – 2014-02-18 09:09 pm

Here is where I first spotted it - And just thought that's strange. That's when I thought I would post it here for opinion.

Well, my opinion is that the durations make a mockery of the time signature.

I might suggest this:

Code: (nwc) [Select · Download]

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.51,Single)
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Chord|Dur:16th|Pos:5,7|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:16th,Grace,Slur|Pos:5
|Note|Dur:8th,Dotted|Pos:9|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Chord|Dur:4th,Dotted|Pos:3,5,7,9|Opts:Stem=Down
|Chord|Dur:8th|Pos:#2^,4^,6^,8^|Opts:Stem=Down
|Chord|Dur:4th|Pos:2,4,6,8|Opts:Stem=Down
|Bar
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Re: A small Bugette?

Reply #5 – 2014-02-18 10:38 pm

Quote from: Rick G. – 2014-02-18 10:26 pm

Well, my opinion is that the durations make a mockery of the time signature.

Maybe they do - but then I'm not sufficiently musically knowledgeable to question what is written on a piece of published music, even if the composer is known for his somewhat strange personal habits and composing and arranging methods.

Re: A small Bugette?

Reply #6 – 2014-02-19 02:06 am

Re: A small Bugette?

Reply #7 – 2014-02-19 05:48 am

Quote from: David Palmquist – 2014-02-19 02:06 am

The problem isn't just the beam direction, it's also the beat count. The bar lines are aligned, which seems to mean NWC counts the first note grouping incorrectly.

Nonsense. Just because a rest has a Vertical Offset of -2000 (IOW, you can't see it) doesn't mean that it doesn't count.

It is yet to be determined that there is a problem with the "beam direction."

Re: A small Bugette?

Reply #8 – 2014-02-19 07:50 am

Ah yes, apologies - this must have been because I couldn't make that layer measure up according to what was written on the score. That must have been what I did to correct the mistiming.

Thinking about it now, (this is a revision of a piece transcribed long ago), it is probable that the augmented dots were missed in the print since this negates the need for the rest - particularly since there is a similar construct elsewhere, as I said earlier. However, I don't see this would/should alter the direction of the flag. (or should it ?)

Re:Partial Beam (beamlet) direction

Reply #9 – 2014-02-19 08:49 am

Quote from: Richard Woodroffe – 2014-02-19 07:50 am

However, I don't see this would/should alter the direction of the flag. (or should it ?)

It might. Measures get divided into beats. The time signature is a guide, but not the only guide. The measure in question appears to me to be 2+3+3/8. Beamlets should point toward the beat, not away from it. A voice can have a different beat structure than another voice (or the accompaniment). This can be especially complex in piano music where all this must fit into one Grand Staff.

Doing this properly requires that a notation system have the tools to impress an arbitrary beaming system onto notes. For NoteWorthy, the tools I suggest would be:

Beaming a RestChord
Beams across Bar lines and across other Notation Items

Re:Partial Beam (beamlet) direction

Reply #10 – 2014-02-19 08:57 am

Thank you for the explanation.

Quote from: Rick G. – 2014-02-19 08:49 am

Doing this properly requires that a notation system have the tools to impress an arbitrary beaming system onto notes. For NoteWorthy, the tools I suggest would be:
Beaming a RestChord
Beams across Bar lines and across other Notation Items

Long yearned for items in any case.