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Chord notation

This question is not directly related to the NWC sofware, but as long as I use it for all my musical activities, I ask my question in this forum :
What is the exact meaning of a chord written like this in a score :
G7/C or Dm/C or Am7/C or F/C...
Thanks,
Pierre Hugo, Paris, France.

Re: Chord notation

Reply #1 –
The letter after the / is the bass note. Example:

Dm7/C would be a D-minor 7 (D, F, A, C) with C bass

Fsus4/C would be Fsus4 (F, C, D) with C bass,

etc.

HTH

Re: Chord notation

Reply #2 –
Chords notated like that are usually meant to represent a chord with a specific note on the bottom of the chord even though that note is not necessarily in the chord. For example Dm/C refers to a D minor chord with a C on the bottom. G7/C means a G seventh chord with a C on the bottom even though the C is not in the G7 chord.

Warren Barnett

Re: Chord notation

Reply #3 –
Fred, Warren,

Thanks a lot for your quick answers.
I have understood your replies for an organ for instance : I play the </part> on the ped keyboard. So how do I do the same on a guitar ?

Pierre Hugo, Paris, France

Re: Chord notation

Reply #4 –
Well, on a guitar you have a lot less options - being restricted to six strings and finite-sized hands. However, there are a few common chords to which this would apply:

Examples:

The "C" chord that everyone knows and learns first off is actually C/E if you play all six strings.

The "A minor" chord is similarly actually Am/E if you strum without damping the big E string.

If you play the "basic" (three fingers in a V shape) "D" chord and strum all strings, you're actually playing D/E... and having the 2 in the bass is usually considered pretty ugly, so we soon learn to damp that string... :-P

If you play the usual "G" chord and drop the bottom string, you have a G/E, aka Em7.

And so on.

In some notation, the "guitar" chords like this are combined with what the bass is doing, so that you can fake it (or try to) if you happen to be stuck playing solo.

Fred

Re: Chord notation

Reply #5 –
But you may have a bottom note that is not in the chord and have it sound quite good if it is part of a descending scale, or something else that works musically in the bass.

A

Re: Chord notation

Reply #6 –
I was always impressed by the often used by jazz pianists 5 of 5 over 1, or in the key of C, D triad over a C bass. Sounds wonderfully corny when you play an arpeggio over that chord :-)
Adam

Re: Chord notation

Reply #7 –
That one's a lot older than jazz. Beethoven was chastised for using this one (essentially a dominant 7 with the 7 in the bass), as for opening his first symphony with a dominant 7 chord... what a renegade ;-)

F

Re: Chord notation

Reply #8 –
The method is often used in jazz as short hand to simplify a chord structure when written.

For example: Gm7/C is written for C9sus4.

And polyphonic chord examples include D/C7 for C13#11 etc.

Re: Chord notation

Reply #9 –
To follow S.R.'s question:
as a french-native musician, I always supposed that 'sus' meant 'augmentée' or 'diminuée' (more than a "true" 4th, or less resp.). C-F is what I call here a "true" 4th, C-F# being 4sus for me. Am i completely wrong??? (This sends me years ago, now I only read choir or classical music and no R'n'[B|R] no more,so didn't investigate further...)
F-B (in C major) being _the_ 4th exception ("triton" in french, what's its name in english?)

TIA,
      MAD

Re: Chord notation

Reply #10 –
marsu: the "triton" (F-B in C) is a "tritone" in English... at least in the American dialect. The tritone substitution is a standard jazz chord substitution in a V-I sequence. In C: Db7 for G7 in G7|C ->Db7|C.

Stephan: It's been a while since I've been in a theory class, so I'm a little fuzzy on some of the "rules" but arrangers/composers almost always loosely abide by them. In practice, I've seen and used the sus chord in three ways. 1) The traditional suspension: A -> Esus. 2) As an anticipation: Esus -> A. 3) And as a "color" substitution: E -> Esus -> E.

Re: Chord notation

Reply #11 –
In jazz chord notation the 'sus4' invariably means that the third is omitted and replaced by the perfect fourth.
C,F,G,Bb (C7sus4)

If a fourth formed part of a 7th chord which also included a third (usually minor) I would call the chord an 11th chord.
G,Bb,D,F,(A),C (Gm11)

I have seen some arrangers call the first chord a C11 but to me an extension above the 7th (eg.9,11,13) implies a dominant 7th chord (V7) which includes both the maj 3rd and min 7th.
So I prefer this type of notation as it's less ambiguous.

I think the Berklee system of I II III with other marks #,b M,m,x (etc) signifying changes to the normal diatonic chords is a better system because it has a floating tonality that is independent of the key.
Unfortunately is seldom used in this country.

Re: Chord notation

Reply #12 –
Interesting thread. As a sidenote, (is that a pun?) sus doesn't have to be 4, though it's usually understood as such if no specification, e.g. Gsus would consist of G, C, D.

You can also have sus2, which to continue the example would be G, A, D.

I was taught that "suspended" meant a chord lacking a third, to which it "wants to go" to be resolved - hence "suspended."

Fred

Re: Chord notation

Reply #13 –
Why are 4ths always sus?

As I understand it the abreviation is for a suspended fourth and this means that the fourth which is supspended should be sounding in the same part in the previous chord. e.g A -> Esus4 with the A of the A major being retained in the Esus4. However, I also see things like E7 -> E7sus4. But there is no fourth (A) in E7 to be suspended.

Have I misunderstood the meaning of sus or is the terminology used by arrangers by arrangers more loosely than I was taught in music theory?

Re: Chord notation

Reply #14 –
Barry, Fred... That's right -- there's no third in the sus chord. I forgot to mention that. Otherwise, as Barry pointed out, the chord is an extended IIm7 or V7.

Re: Chord notation

Reply #15 –
Fred,

I taken the sus2 notation to mean 'add9' like CEGD.
Am I wrong?

Re: Chord notation

Reply #16 –
To my understanding, add9, 9 and sus2 are all different. To summarize what I understand them to mean:

G 9 - G,B,D,F,A (the dominant 7 is understood to be present)

G add9 - G,B,D,A (no 7)

G sus2 - G,A,D (no 3, no 7, 2 in the same octave)

Fred

Re: Chord notation

Reply #17 –
I've also seen Gsus2 notated as "G2(no 3)" which kind of put me off the first time I saw it. The notation may be explicit but I don't like the use of the parenthesis.

Re: Chord notation

Reply #18 –
Actually, to be a complete pedant about it, the word "suspended" is used because the note (usually a 4th or 2nd)
is held over form the previous chord, at least in classical
voice leading. So in the basic 4-3 suspension, in C for instance, you might have IV (F: F a c' f') going to V7 with a supended 4th (G7sus4: G d c' f'), and then the held over, or suspended, fourth resolves to the third (G d b f'), and then you could do G7 - Csus4 - C for a real churchy ending
(G d b f' - C g c f' - C g c e')- excuse the bad voice leading, I'm doing this in a hurry. As the last writer
pointed out, it's useful to use the sus4 even when the note isn't actually suspended FROM anywhere, because it distinguishes it from an added fourth, which is a chord with an extra note, to a fourth that REPLACES the third and, in a pop or jazz context, may or may not resolve to it.

Re: Chord notation

Reply #19 –
Hi,

I've been scanning the web for a good reference to explain chord notation such as G7/C mentioned. I've seen a load of these symbols on jazz stuff, and don't have a clue from the
info I've found what they mean.

Cheers, Steve.