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Topic: Bar lines move when converted to midi (Read 5570 times) previous topic - next topic

Bar lines move when converted to midi

When I finished the manuscript for a piece in *.nwc form and
then exported to save as a *.mid file, it shifted the barlines 1 beat to the left removing the 1 beat pickup at the beginning (and of course the final 3 beats at the end of the piece)...the music to anyone else probably sounds the same but when viewed as a midi file manuscript, it is
simply not written correctly. How can I keep this from happening (and why did it?). Thanks

Re: Bar lines move when converted to midi

Reply #1 –
What software are you using to look at the exported MIDI file? If you are just re-importing it into NWC, then naturally your bar lines placements will not be preserved, as a MIDI file only includes note events, not bar lines and other decorations that appear in notation. NWC exports to a MIDI file exactly as the song is played back, except that fermata and breath mark delays are not exported (since these do not exist in MIDI files). It does not add or remove any beats to the exported song.

Re: Bar lines move when converted to midi

Reply #2 –
You can keep this from happening (probably) by inserting rests before the anacrucis (pick-up note) to fill it out to a full bar. E.g. in 4/4, if your anacrucis is 1/4, put a 1/2 rest and a 1/4 rest on each staff before the note.

Re: Bar lines move when converted to midi

Reply #3 –
Thanks for the quick reply....I opened it up using Cakewalk
which is another program similar to Noteworthy. It displays the entire music manuscript of any *.mid file...but in this case, displayed it with the barline shift to the left (also causing many half notes to become tied quarters over the bar) Not really a problem from the listening angle, but anyone else who opened/printed that midi file (which will be displayed on a webpage)using a music program capable as such, would see the manuscript incorrectly written. I was just curious how I could compose using the Noteworthy program, and then convert it to a *.mid without that shift.
(I am only using the shareware versions of both programs to compare before I buy, as the cost difference is quite a bit.) I had written the 4 part arrangement out in pencil and then simply used the computer keyboard to transfer it into Noteworthy to see how it printed out. The Noteworthy (*.nwc) version printed exactly as written...the *.mid version, which I didn't print but just looked at, was altered. Robyn

Re: Bar lines move when converted to midi

Reply #4 –
I'm sort replying to my own reply here (???)...in other words, wouldn't the music to the First Noel, which starts with a 2 note/single beat pickup look rather ridiculous to anyone who has spent a lifetime of Christmases playing it, if it weren't in correct notation...I guess I would gag and say who wrote this mess and how did they ever get through Theory 101!! ;-DD Ha! Robyn

Re: Bar lines move when converted to midi

Reply #5 –
So, does Cakewalk do a better midi import than Noteworthy?

Re: Bar lines move when converted to midi

Reply #6 –
Hey...to everybody...thanks a bunch!! This is one of the best (and fastest) forums out there. I've asked questions on forums before and grown *old* waiting for someone to respond...you guys are too much! I'm going to try all these suggestions. Also I just came offline registering my copy so I can do all the neat stuff all the time!!! ;-DD Robyn

Re: Bar lines move when converted to midi

Reply #7 –
Fred is right - put the appropriate rests in the first bar to pad it out to a full bar, and the exported MIDI file will re-import correctly. At least it does in NWC - I've just tried it!

Re: Bar lines move when converted to midi

Reply #8 –
Thanks for all the tips etc. Whenever I'm comparing similar software (whether Netscape vs IExplore or Cakewalk/Encore/Noteworthy etc) I usually try to view/do something from a third party to see exactly how each program treats the same file. In this case, I was looking at my own Noteworthy creation...I probably should use a *.mid file that I did not create, then export/convert, then import back to view.
Cakewalk has limits on its freeware trial version also...you cannot print or save-to-disk anything you do. (You can create or import and then fool with it all you want...but the creation and all changes to someone else's are lost when you close the program). This doesn't allow me see what actually gets printed or saved in the end...nor does it allow saving-to-disk and reopening in another program to see if any changes occur at the "save or import" point.
I did find one other glitch. I opened that *mid file back in Noteworthy this morning and it of course had to convert it back into *.nwc format to see it...the barlines were still in the "moved" position...but in addition to that, the original grand staff (piano score) was then split into 3: a single treble with the sop/alto lines but the bass clef became two - another treble and a bass. The tenor line was placed by itself on the second treble and the bass on the bass. Instead of looking like a standard hymn right out of hymnal (4 pt Chorale or keyboard use),...it looked liked I had scored it for individual voices on 3 staves (S/A - T - B). The tenor line did have a couple of higher notes above the staff (c and d) but certainly not enough to warrant assigning it to the treble clef....very weird.
Cakewalk has its own filetype *.wrk and a "bundling" of complete info *.bun, plus *.mid and two others: *.rmi and *.mff And I would assume like Noteworthy, stores the most complete and true information about a creation on its own filetype, using *.mid as a common exchange format - losing some things in the process. If you're not using these programs to make a living (and need more sophistication) but are just having fun...Noteworthy costs 1/3 as much...fun for a great price!

Re: Bar lines move when converted to midi

Reply #9 –
Rats! I can't find where we covered this, but you can fix the anacrusis problem on reimported midi files by placing a double bar after the anacrusis note and then hitting "Audit Bar Lines".

A

Re: Bar lines move when converted to midi

Reply #10 –
You could insert a Section Open barline and run the Audit barlines but it will still leave strange tied notation.
It is safer to pad out the anacrusis bar with rests if you are exporting to a midi file.
Try padding the first bar -run a bar audit then export as a midi file and re-import into NoteWorthy which will now think the first measure starts on the first beat and organizes the rest of the score to match.
Padding the first bar also leaves some space at the front of the piece to add any sysyex or controllers in Cakewalk.

The problem you had with the keyboard can be fixed in import - check the list of imported tracks you will find that the lower staff is split because the range of notes in the staff exceeds the 18 semitone default setting.
Either increase this value to something larger (or the maximum 127) or edit the imported tracks changing the split point or reducing the split track to one.

Incidentally - You must check out the print capabilties of Cakewalk before deciding on the software to purchase.
For my money NoteWorthy produces printed scores of higher quality but if you intend to make midi files the sound control in Cakewalk is superior. (sorry Eric!)

Re: Bar lines move when converted to midi

Reply #11 –
This is not a reply but a question:

How do I convert Encore music files to Midi files?? Thanks

John Hart