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Topic: Help with simple transposition (Read 7577 times) previous topic - next topic

Help with simple transposition

Friends,

I know a bit about music theory, but not enough.

I play guitar and Scottish small pipes (like a bagpipe). The small pipes are in the key of A

When I play Amazing Grace on the small pipes. I use think I play it in the key of A. The first and last note are A, rather than the D found in the original music.

I would like to get a group going which includes guitars, piano, and recorders. As the bagpipe is very limited in its range I think I will have to make the other instruments arranged around it.

The recorder is in the key of E, pianos and guitars are non transposition instruments.

I hope all of this makes sense. can anyone HELP!!!!!!!!

Re: Help with simple transposition

Reply #1 –
First things first: let's be sure you really are playing in A. The first note of "Amazing Grace" in A is actually an E: it's part of the pickup to the first measure (on the syllable "A" of "Amazing"). The first held note - the first note in the first full measure (on the syllable "-maz-" of "Amazing") - is an A, as is the last note of the tune. The music also has C#s and F#s in it. "Amazing Grace" is in a five-note, or "pentatonic," scale, so the other sharp that you normally see in an A key signature - G# - is not used in the tune, although it will probably appear in the accompaniment.

I hope I haven't lost you so far.

Next: are you sure about the recorder? It would be an unusual instrument if it's actually keyed in E. Recorders are usually keyed in C and F. The C instruments don't transpose (or transpose by octaves, which can be ignored). The F instruments transpose up a fourth (or up a fourth, plus or minus an octave); that is, you play a C and you get an F. The actual transpositions are:

Sopranino recorder: transposes up a fourth plus an octave.
Soprano recorder: transposes up an octave.
Alto recorder: transposes up a fourth.
Tenor recorder: notated at concert pitch (plays the notes as written).
Bass recorder: transposes down a fifth (up a fourth, then down an octave)
Contrabass recorder: transposes down an octave.

Finally, the guitar is a transposing instrument. It sounds an octave lower than written. In general, this can be ignored, but you should keep it in mind when voicing chords (deciding which notes in a chord are played by which instruments), because the guitar has a tendancy to disappear if louder instruments are playing exactly the same notes.

Anyway....in your ensemble, if you are playing "Amazing Grace" in A, you can write everything else in A as well unless you are using a sopranino, alto, or bass recorder. If you are using one of those, you will need to write everything either up a fifth or down a fourth: that is, if you want to hear an A, you will have to write an E; for an F, write a C; and so on. To do this in NWC, simply write your tune in A and then use "transpose staff" to either move it up seven semitones or down five semitones.

If you don't know which recorder your recorder player is using, ask him or her to cover all the holes in the instument and blow a note. Try to match the note on the piano. If it's a C, you have a soprano, tenor, or contrabass instrument; if it's an F, you have a sopranino, alto, or bass. Most recorders in general use are sopranos or altos. There are also quite a few tenors. There are many fewer sopraninos, basses, and contrabasses, so chances are you won't have one of those.

Hope this helps....

Bill

Re: Help with simple transposition

Reply #2 –
I've always seen the scores for alto recorder written in real (concert) pitch and I never had problems "transposing" on the fly.
Of course, if the recorder player is a beginner, a transposed score can always be done.

I have much more problems to remember which recorder I'm playing: german or baroque!
And even some recorders of the same brand (Moeck) and the same family (Tuju) have some little fingering differences.

When my daughter was younger my wife suggested to buy a sopranino for her, but being a transposing instrument I preferred to give her a soprano, even if it was difficult for her's small hands.
And she has always been longing for my tenor...

Re: Help with simple transposition

Reply #3 –
I learned recorder back in my college days on a German tenor. I have since been able to adapt to baroque fingering easily on all other sizes of the instrument, but when I have a tenor in my hands the baroque system still gives me trouble. Fortunately, I still have my original German tenor.

My wife learned alto back in high school from a book that taught it as a transposing instrument. Unfortunately, she actually had a soprano and didn't know it. That was corrected while she was in college, but it still creates problems now and then when her attention slips - and we're now in our late sixties. So I strongly advocate getting the right instrument and its matching book.
 

Re: Help with simple transposition

Reply #4 –
I too learned the recorder, but at primary school at the age of 10.  Started off on the Descant (which I think has been referred to as the Soprano) which sounds an octave higher than the scored Middle C to A above the treble staff.  Then moved to the Treble recorder (which has previously been described as Alto)  In my experience this was also scored at concert pitch, with a range from F above middle C to D above the treble staff.  Sounded as per the score.  At the time I wondered why the two recorders started at different notes, which made swapping from one to another more difficult, but I now see that having one tune in different keys for the two instruments would have probably confused a 10 year old and put them off music for life!  Even now I have to think hard when scoring for brass and woodwind to make sure I set it in the correct key.