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Topic: Trills (Read 17061 times) previous topic - next topic

Trills

I am writing a violin part for a piece and I am calling for a trill. I don't see anyway to indicate that. Also, I would like to indicate what the trilled note is, in this case, it's not the next note of the scale.

Any thoughts?

Thanks,

John Mahony

Re: Trills

Reply #1 –
NWC does not have a built-in trill function. You can use Insert, Text to add the trill notation. You have to manually notate the effect, if you want it to play back. This is usually done in a hidden staff not meant for printing.

Re: Trills

Reply #2 –
You can find an example of that in your "Samples" folder.  First open "Moonlite"; then find the "open book" icon and, under the first tab, be sure everything is checked (made visible).  In measure 188 you will see the displayed note with "tr" but the third staff (normally hidden) will show what is actually played.

HTH
Since 1998

Re: Trills

Reply #3 –
G'day John,
In addition to the previous replies, you can also improve the appearance of the tr~ symbol.

If you are comfortable with installing fonts onto your PC then visit the Scripto:Helpful Files section:

http://nwc-scriptorium.org/helpful.htm

In the "Fonts" section you will find some suites posted by myself, plus Boxmarks and Boxmark2.  The title fonts from my suites (SwingDings, MusikDingsSans and MusikDingsSerif), Boxmarks and Boxmark2 all have a "tr~" symbol.

You use the fonts dialogue in NWC to specify a user font, then create a text entry using the selected user font.  The text you insert is the letter <h>.

There are also addditional squiggles that can be used as extenders but the ones from Boxmarks and Boxmark2 don't "connect".  I have corrected this in my suites.  The additional characters are <i> and <j>
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Trills

Reply #5 –
And I thought that a trill was, well, just a 'trill'

Tony

Re: Trills

Reply #6 –
Looks like a very interesting and informative article!  I learned a lot just by skimming through it, like that horns and clarinets are preferred to NOT play vibrato (even though it IS possible)--neither of which I knew.

Re: Trills

Reply #7 –
Quote from: John Mahony –
...the trilled note is...not the next note of the scale.
That would make it a tremolo, which is a whole 'nother kettle o' fish notationallywise speaking.
I am not at my computer right now, otherwise I'd attach an example of how to accomplish it. 
During the meanwhile, you may want to search the forum for "tremolo."
[It is possible but much more difficult in Version 1.  Version 2 is a piece of cake.]

Re: Trills

Reply #8 –
And I thought that a trill was, well, just a 'trill'

Tony

A gliss is just a gliss, a style is just a style....
As time goes by!

Re: Trills

Reply #9 –
Quote from: K.A.T. –
That would make it a tremolo, which is a whole 'nother kettle o' fish notationallywise speaking.
I am not at my computer right now, otherwise I'd attach an example of how to accomplish it. 
During the meanwhile, you may want to search the forum for "tremolo."
[It is possible but much more difficult in Version 1.  Version 2 is a piece of cake.]

Correction:  In the wonderful world of strings, a tremolo is NOT EVEN CLOSE to a trill.  I'm not sure any instrument would play tremolo with two notes, but in string music, it's Italian or some fancy language for "bow back and forth with tiny strokes as fast as you can for the duration of this note"-- it's sort of like shivering.  I don't know the name for a trill like the one you're talking about, though.  I've seen it in violin music and piano music, and it uses those thick straight slanted lines in between the two notes, which are both written as the duration of the trill.

Re: Trills

Reply #10 –
G'day Bob,
I quote from my Alfreds:

Tremolo:
1: Rapidly repeating a single note or chord.
2: Alternating rapidly between 2 notes or chords.

You are describing definition 1, K.A.T is talking about definition 2.

A trill is something else again:

Trill An ornament consisting of the rapid alternation of the written note and the diatonic second above it...

I guess you could say a trill is a special case of tremolo definition 2, but I've never seen it called a tremolo.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Trills

Reply #11 –
Quote
K.A.T. is talking about definition 2.
Yes, thanks for pointing that out, Lawrie.
I had forgotten about definition 1 at the time of the posting, things being as hectic as they are lately...

Re: Trills

Reply #12 –
thank you musicjohn i thought the article was quite a trill

Re: Trills

Reply #13 –
A good pun is its own reword. 

Re: Trills

Reply #14 –
Yes, Lawrie, thanks for the reference.  I love learning new things about music! :)  So then, this would indeed be called a "tremolo" (of type 2).  Sorry for doubting you.

I always wondered what to call those things...

Re: Trills

Reply #15 –
G'day Bob,

Quote from: Bob, Deranged Arranger –
Sorry for doubting you.

I think it was actually K.A.T ya got, but thanks anyway ;)

Quote
I always wondered what to call those things...

Always a pleasure to try and help.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Trills

Reply #16 –
Ooops...yeah...forgot to stick KAT's name in there.

I'm doing a lot of that, lately...forgetting to type important stuff.  This Sunday it cost me, too, when I posted something in my own forum...

Re: Trills

Reply #18 –
Thanks to everybody that responded. BTW, when I said I wanted a trill where the next note is not in the scale, I meant where the next note of the scale is a whole step, but I want to trill with the next half step.

John

Re: Trills

Reply #19 –
G'day John,
after searching through the recesses of my mind (I don't like going there 'cos it's dark and scary) I seem to recall that you can indicate this by using an accidental in conjunction with the trill symbol...  'ang on a sec....

Ah HA!

Just checked my Alfred's...

You can use an accidental after the TR but before the wavy line (if used) OR the accidental can be placed above the trill symbol.  You can also use a cue sized note head after the principal note with the accidental placed before it...
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Trills

Reply #20 –
If I remember correctly, the trilled flat, etc, would just simply be these:
tr#
trb
trx
trbb <--this one, because of musical technicalities, can only be used in VERY rare instances involving a flat or double-flat on the note receiving the trill, and if the note receiving the trill is only a flat, then the trill note's natural must fall at least three half-steps above the note receiving the trill... consider yourself priveleged to see one in print as you read this post.

A trilled natural would be done the same way, but Verdana font doesn't have an appropriate character for a natural sign, and the NWCV15 font doesn't seem to display correctly as superscript.

Re: Trills

Reply #21 –
Then there is the other bit as well depending on the period the piece was composed in although a bit of a grey area where generally it is accepted that
prior to 1800 the trill started on the note above the written note .After that date
the trill commences on the note below ,in context of the key.Frederick Noad
Solo Guitar BK I

Re: Trills

Reply #22 –
Quote
Verdana font doesn't have an appropriate character for a natural sign, and the NWCV15 font doesn't seem to display correctly as superscript.
You'd think that in a forum discussing music notation, we'd be able to use d, e, f, g, and h without fudging it...

Re: Trills

Reply #23 –
Quote from: K.A.T. –
You'd think that in a forum discussing music notation, we'd be able to use d, e, f, g, and h without fudging it...

Yeah, no kidding.  I wish the NWCV15 font looked right as superscript, because then I could've used the real symbols.

Re: Trills

Reply #24 –
Something like this?

tr d
tr e
tr f
tr g
tr h


Still a kludge though - and looks it... :(
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Trills

Reply #25 –
Quote from: Timoteus B –
Then there is the other bit as well depending on the period the piece was composed in although a bit of a grey area where generally it is accepted that
prior to 1800 the trill started on the note above the written note .After that date
the trill commences on the note below ,in context of the key.Frederick Noad
Solo Guitar BK I
Actually the date is 1828, with the publication of Hummel's book on pano playing. It took several years, and the influence of Hummel's students, for the practice of starting trills on the princpal note (not the note below) to become widely accepted.
Carl Bangs
Fenwick Parva Press
Registered user since 1995

Re: Trills

Reply #26 –
Does this look less kludgey?
trd
tre
trf
trg
trh

 

Re: Trills

Reply #27 –
Let me give it another try:

tr d
tr e
tr f
tr g
tr h



I made the accidentals smaller and shifted them out from above the "tr".  Smart thinking with the subscript, but it requires a few extra lines beneath the last one.