Skip to main content ↑ ↓
Topic: Staff Style and Object Defaults (Read 7796 times) previous topic - next topic

Staff Style and Object Defaults

IMO. NWC would be more friendly if it took the style of the staff into account when determining defaults.

For a Lower Grand Staff, the default visibility of:
  • Tempo
  • Dynamic
  • Dynamic Variance
should be: Never

For any staff except a Lower Grand Staff, the default visibility of:
  • SustainPedal
should be: Never

I think that these are the defaults that a new user would expect.

For all staves, the visibility of a hairpin should follow the visibility of the last Dynamic or DynamicVariance.  A new dynamic variance: 'hairpin position' could be added. This would act like like 'Rinforzando' or 'Sforzando', except that nothing would be printed. This would add flexibility to hairpin position and visibility.

For most songs with Piano and Bass, the piano's Lower Grand Staff is nearly identical to the Bass. These changes would reduce editing considerably.

Most of the dynamics from the Upper Grand Staff could be copied to the Lower Grand Staff staff without futher editing.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Staff Style and Object Defaults

Reply #1 –
Quote
For most songs with Piano and Bass, the piano's Lower Grand Staff is nearly identical to the Bass. These changes would reduce editing considerably.

That's exactly why I think in that case the default visibility for Tempo, Dynamic and Dynamic Variance should be "top staff only". When you print the bass line alone they become automatically visible.
This change should be very simple to implement.

Quote
Most of the dynamics from the Upper Grand Staff could be copied to the Lower Grand Staff staff without futher editing.

But if you copy something isn't the visibility attribute copied too?

A somehow annoying thing is that, when you write a piano grand staff, the dinamic variances applies to both staves so you have to manually copy all of them in the lower staff and change their attribute to "never" or (see above) "top staff only".
Maybe a user tool?

Re: Staff Style and Object Defaults

Reply #2 –
Quote
Maybe a user tool?

What an idiot!
The user tools work on a single staff...
Remember: always connect the brain before tal... ehm, writing.

Re: Staff Style and Object Defaults

Reply #3 –
G'day Flurmy,
actually... try this: http://nwc-scriptorium.org/nwc2scripts_scratch.html

Andrew Purdam wrote this quite some time ago - I think it'll do what you're looking for...

It is a beta and has some bugs, but he did a lot of work on it a few years ago and it is quite flexible.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Staff Style and Object Defaults

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Flurmy –
That's exactly why I think in that case the default visibility for Tempo, Dynamic and Dynamic Variance should be "top staff only".
I agree that the default visibility for Tempo should be "top staff only".

On a score, it is customary to provide dynamics for each instrument. When there are multiple voices within the same instrument, the dynamics are not indicated for each voice unless they are different.

In a more perfect world, NWC might let the user define which staves belong to a given instrument and default accordingly. At this point, I'm simply suggesting that that a Lower Grand Staff belongs to the same instrument as its corresponding Upper Grand Staff.

Quote from: Flurmy –
Maybe a user tool?
I could easily write one for my own use. My original post was about improving NWC.

It would certainly work for me if note velocity was applied to the entire MIDI channel and Tempo was ignored from all but the topmost staff, but that might prove confusing to new users.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Staff Style and Object Defaults

Reply #5 –
This was the reason for my suggestion, since implemented, that the visibility attribute of a dynamic should be set according to the visibility of the previous dynamic on the same staff. What this means is that all you have to do is to set the visibility of the first dynamic in the lower grand staff to "never". Any subsequent dynamics that you insert in that staff will then be invisible as well. It does mean that you have to insert them, rather than copying them from the upper staff; Flurmy is right that if you copy them they will carry their visibility attributes with them. But I find this quite simple.

However, I agree with Rick's original post. I would prefer the default visibility for dynamics and dynamic changes to be "never" on the lower grand staff, and I would love to see the vertical position of a hairpin be an attribute of the hairpin itself, rather than tacking it onto the previous dynamic (which may be a very long way back in the score). I have also at times wished for an invisible hairpin. And pedal markings should only be seen on the lower grand staff - not even there, in some cases. The harp is written on a grand staff, and pedal markings help a MIDI harp sound like a real harp, but real harps don't have pedals (at least in the sense that pedal markings are used for).

Cheers,

Bill

Re: Staff Style and Object Defaults

Reply #6 –
Quote
Andrew Purdam wrote this quite some time ago - I think it'll do what you're looking for...

Oops, I missed it. Thank you Lawrie.

Quote
I have also at times wished for an invisible hairpin

Uh? Can't you obtain it with an hidden "crescendo"?

Quote
real harps don't have pedals (at least in the sense that pedal markings are used for).

Well, recently I saw a concert of Vincenzo Zitello, a harpist playing a "celtic" harp that made some strange effects.
Ok , he played with the nails but... Some staccato, some unusual (and very difficult to do) damping...
When I looked closely at his harp I saw he had a dumper lever on the left side of the harp that he pushed with his left knee. Look at the pictures: http://www.vincenzozitello.it/
A sort of "reversed" pedal, isn't it?

By the way: he also played a sort of "raga" with two harps contemporarily. (Again: see pictures)
One with gut strings and the other with metal strings.
A little bit too new age for me but good.

Re: Staff Style and Object Defaults

Reply #7 –
Hi Maurizio -

Quote
Uh? Can't you obtain it with an hidden "crescendo"?

Well, yes, I can....and do. But hairpins are easier.

As for the harpist with the damper lever, I found that very interesting. I play the lever harp (as I think you know), and I've never seen one set up that way. Must be made especially for him. I'm not sure I'd want one: it looks as though it might change the vibration characteristics of the soundbox (even when not applied) and thus alter the sound. Not for the better.

Cheers,

Bill

Re: Staff Style and Object Defaults

Reply #8 –
Quote
I've never seen one set up that way. Must be made especially for him.

Yes indeed.
His harps are of Salvi brand (like mine), an italian harp builder, and they have also piezo pick-ups for each string and a battery operated stereo mixer on the basement to connect to amplification.
Guess the price...

In some concerts he added some electronic effects too.

Quote
it looks as though it might change the vibration characteristics of the soundbox (even when not applied)

I don't think so because the dumper don't lies on the sound table but is a few millimeter higher and don't touch it.
Furthermore, the higher it touches the strings, the more effective the dumping.

Re: Staff Style and Object Defaults

Reply #9 –
Quote from: William Ashworth –
I would love to see the vertical position of a hairpin be an attribute of the hairpin itself, rather than tacking it onto the previous dynamic (which may be a very long way back in the score).
I just stick a hidden Rinforzando in and position it. It doesn't affect playback. I don't care much for the clutter in the editor though. As I see it, the problem with a direct setting for hairpin position is that it would have to go on the Note/Rest Tab. The Note Tab is getting to be intimidating for new users as it is, and there are several things I'd like to see added that are more important to me than hairpin positions. If it got to the point where an 'Advanced...' button was added to the Note Tab that took you to another tabbed page of options, I could support both horizontal and vertical hairpin positioning options being placed there. Of course, the nwctxt line for a note object might get so complex that a User Tool would have difficulty parsing it.

Quote from: William Ashworth –
I have also at times wished for an invisible hairpin.
Have you tried this:
Quote
|Note|Dur:Whole,Grace|Pos:0X|Opts:Crescendo,Muted|Visibility:Never
This does the same thing as the other valid dynamic variances. The only thing you have to watch out for is ties. no longer works.
Registered user since 1996
 

Re: Staff Style and Object Defaults

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Flurmy –
But if you copy something isn't the visibility attribute copied too?
Yes, and if that attribute was Visibility:Default, it would work on both grand staves.

However, the more I think about this, the more I like the idea of a check box on Staff Properties labeled:

  Note velocity dynamics affect MIDI channel

This would serve my needs and would reduce clutter in the editor.
It should not affect anyone who doesn't use it as it would be, by default, unchecked.
Registered user since 1996