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Topic: Flow direction oddities (Read 9918 times) previous topic - next topic

Flow direction oddities

Just testing the way first and second endings work without a repeat on the first ending, and found these oddities:

This plays bars 1,2,4,1,3,4,1,4,1,4,1,4,1,4,1,4, 1.4

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar
|Ending|Endings:1
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:1
|Bar|Style:Double
|Ending|Endings:2
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-1
|Bar|Style:Double
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:4
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End


This plays 1,2,4,1,4:

!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar
|Ending|Endings:1
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:1
|Bar|Style:Double
|Ending|Endings:2
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-1
|Bar|Style:Double
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:4
|Flow|Style:DaCapo|Pos:-1|Wide:Y
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End


Re: Flow direction oddities

Reply #1
The first one certainly is odd. I suspect NWC2 is so badly confused by it that some failsafe routine is stopping playback after 8 repeats. Otherwise it would go on forever ...
Another case of repeats and decorated barlines not playing well together.

#2 seems correct. It hits the D.C., then skips both 1 and 2 while looking for a Default Ending, as contrasted with:
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|TimeSig|Signature:2/4
|PerformanceStyle|Style:Tenuto|Pos:9
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:0
|Bar
|Ending|Endings:1
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:1
|Bar|Style:Double
|Ending|Endings:2,D
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:-1
|Bar|Style:Double
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:4
|Bar|Style:MasterRepeatClose
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
or am I missing something?
Registered user since 1996

Re: Flow direction oddities

Reply #2
Double bar lines are basically treated as special ending termination points. Each repeat after the 2nd does not encounter a matching special ending, so the master repeat is executed again.

In theory, master repeats never repeat more than 8 times.

This is why the first clip behaves the way it does.

Re: Flow direction oddities

Reply #3
Quote
Double bar lines are basically treated as special ending termination points.

Why?

It's not documented. It's not standard usage (actually it's not usage at all). Its behaviour is unpredictable. And it causes all sorts of problems (like not being able to notate a key change properly inside a special ending).

Please do stop treating a double barline in this manner. No-one would even notice that the quirk had disappeared.


Re: Flow direction oddities

Reply #4
G'day Peter,
It's not standard usage (actually it's not usage at all).

Actually, I was always taught that a double barline did in fact terminate an n time bar.

Quote
Please do stop treating a double barline in this manner. No-one would even notice that the quirk had disappeared.

Given my music training, I'd actually prefer to see an optional parameter in the barline's properties.  One that says - terminate special ending here or something like that which is active by default on any decorated barline.  Or perhaps reversing the logic would be better - a check box that says "override special ending termination" or such like.

That way you can choose to stop the behaviour when you have a circumstance that calls for a double barline but which needs to see the special ending continue.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Flow direction oddities

Reply #5
Quote
Actually, I was always taught that a double barline did in fact terminate an n time bar

Why do you want/need a termination at all? The nth time is terminated naturally by the (n+1)th time bar and/or a Master Repeat Close, or it flows on without a terminator (now that would be a nice enhancement – an open n time symbol)

Re: Flow direction oddities

Reply #6
G'day Peter,
Why do you want/need a termination at all?

After the last n time bar you may have a DS or DC with or with an al Coda.  Given that repeats are traditionally ignored after a DS or DS (except that in modern usage this seems to not be the case any more in many instances) you need to know where the nth time bar ends so the music can continue in the correct place.

You also need to be able to seperate a Coda from the last n time bar etc.

What I really need is to be able to instruct NWC to play (or not play) specific n time bars after a DC or DS - the current D. ending is not sufficient...  I also need DSS and Codetta controls.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Flow direction oddities

Reply #7
Quote
DSS
You're starting to sound like my old clarinet teacher: "Dal segno, Stupid!"

Quote
Codetta
Is this Coda's daughter?

I'm intrigued, Lawrie. What do these terms really mean?


Re: Flow direction oddities

Reply #8
What do these terms really mean?
da Capo means da Capo, not da Capo unless I've seen a dal Segno or I'm in a Coda. The Viewer has figured out how to loop, why can't the Editor? That said, you can always do it in long form in a playback group. Dots and spacing, as of Beta 2.13, are more pressing problem, IMHO.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Flow direction oddities

Reply #9
G'day David,

You're starting to sound like my old clarinet teacher: "Dal segno, Stupid!"

It's just a double segno - I don't seem 'em that often but they do come up - you have a Dal Segno somewhere that takes you to the Segno, then later on you find you need to do a repeat of a section that would normally be a second instance of a Dal Segno type flow but to a different place, so you use a Dal Segno Segno (DSS) and go back top the place with a double Segno sign.

Quote
Is this Coda's daughter?

I'm intrigued, Lawrie. What do these terms really mean?

Similarly, a Codetta is signified by having 2 Coda targets.  It is properly defined as a "short Coda".  I usually only see this when you get a DS or sometimes a DC at the end of a Coda, you go back to the Segno (or the top), then follow the "To Codetta" directive - again a double Coda target symbol.

I like your definitions better!
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.