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Topic: A new approach to Breves?? (Read 9753 times) previous topic - next topic

A new approach to Breves??

With all the new fonts available, could we maybe get round the breve (or lack of it problem) by doing a font which would a) move everything down, starting with a breve, and ending with the 32nd note (eliminating the 64th) or b) putting the breve in the 64th note's place.  I don't know how everything works with respect to placement: that is, what about note placement is intrinsic to the font or if there's something else at work. 

As I am with any idea of mine, I am fully prepared for a wet blanket to be thrown over it.  In this case, I can't believe that I'm the first to think along these lines; I would guess, however, that others have more knowledge and thus more sense than to make this suggestion....

Re: A new approach to Breves??

Reply #1 –
Option a) won't work. Beams will be incorrect.

Option b) doesn't get you very far. There would be a lot of hidden rests and notestems.

IMO, it is better just to have a User Font with these 5 glyphs:
  • longa notehead
  • breve notehead
  • longa rest
  • breve rest
  • duration dot
Use a blank space notehead for a whole note and add the note/rest/dot(s) as text.

In either case, A separate play group would be needed to hide the ties.
IMO, tie options should be: Default, Upward, Downward and Hidden. If the tie is hidden, who cares which way it points?

A User Tool could do most of the work, inserting text rests for muted notes, text noteheads otherwise.
Registered user since 1996

Re: A new approach to Breves??

Reply #2 –
Rick,

I thought something like that would happen, thanks.

I brought up my ideas as a way to get the breve question addressed again.  Those of us who write liturgical music even occasionally have been yearning after a breve.

Re: A new approach to Breves??

Reply #3 –
Yes! I could use the BREVE notation. From time to time I need to do recitative text (lines of psalms).

Re: A new approach to Breves??

Reply #4 –
I'll take a look at this.  It would help to be able to see some competently typeset or engraved music using longas and/or breves.  All I have is the score to Barber's Adagio for Strings. Any good urls would be appreciated.
Registered user since 1996

Re: A new approach to Breves??

Reply #5 –
Quote
Use a blank space notehead for a whole note and add the note/rest/dot(s) as text.

How about using two whole notes, muted, with blank noteheads?  Then use a hidden staff with tied whole notes for playback, eliminating the need for rests. 

I'm not sure if this will work, but try using a hidden bar line between the headless whole notes, and place your text string for the Breve before it, aligned to centre on the next bar line (the hidden one).

Re: A new approach to Breves??

Reply #6 –
Quote from: David Palmquist –
How about using two whole notes, muted, with blank noteheads?
That would be a good way to indicate a breve rest. Not muted, it would be a breve note/chord.
Quote
Then use a hidden staff with tied whole notes for playback, eliminating the need for rests. 
Agreed. Without invisible ties, you will need hidden playback staves.
Visually, rests are important. I don't think that one can dismiss them so easily.

Quote
I'm not sure if this will work, but try using a hidden bar line between the headless whole notes, and place your text string for the Breve before it, aligned to centre on the next bar line (the hidden one).
A normal note sounding at the same time could not be vertically aligned with it.

I need to see some real scores.
Registered user since 1996

Re: A new approach to Breves??

Reply #7 –
This gives a good approximation. Note alignment doesn't normally matter with breves since they generally fill the bar on their own (or come first in chants).

Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|TimeSig|Signature:4/2
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0^|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"\|\|  \|\|"|Font:StaffBold|Pos:0|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Need to fiddle with the font though!

Re: A new approach to Breves??

Reply #8 –
Boxmark2 has both a breve and a brevis...  The brevis could be modified into a passable (not great, but passable) longa by centre justifying it onto a headless note with a stem - maybe a grace note...?

You could also mess about with a headless semibreve and left or right justify the brevis and a vertical bar < | >.  This also seems to be passable...

As my 'Dings suites were modelled on Boxmark2 they also contain the breve and the brevis.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: A new approach to Breves??

Reply #9 –
Greetings, all,

Working on Peter's suggestion, and having user font 2 be Boxmarks 2, there is this
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|TimeSig|Signature:4/2
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0z^|Opts:XNoteSpace=2|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"°"|Font:User2|Pos:4|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0z|Opts:StemLength=0,XNoteSpace=2
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Re: A new approach to Breves??

Reply #10 –
Quote from: Robin L. Øye –
Working on Peter's suggestion, ...
I'm confused. Why would you want to put the text notehead where it:
  • is musically incorrect
  • won't align with a shorter note/rest in another staff
?
Registered user since 1996

Re: A new approach to Breves??

Reply #11 –
The problemwhich led to repositioning was that the note was almost in the time signature, and before that, the note and the boxmark breve were not lining up.  This is what I had first
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|TimeSig|Signature:4/2
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0z^|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"°"|Font:User2|Pos:4|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0z|Opts:StemLength=0
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

I see now that this works better.
Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|TimeSig|Signature:4/2
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0z^|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"°"|Font:User2|Pos:4|Justify:Center|Placement:AtNextNote
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:0z|Opts:StemLength=0,XNoteSpace=2
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End

Re: A new approach to Breves??

Reply #12 –
What about doing a feature request? Breves, longas and other types of notes are certainly needed in different kind of musics. Is it possible to get these as a full feature?

This would even be a resolution for the issue when you double (key "+") a staff with already whole notes in there, that they stay whole notes and everything gets wrong.

Re: A new approach to Breves??

Reply #13 –
Many of us have made breves a feature request over the years.