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Topic: Yamaha XG Tree (Read 68487 times) previous topic - next topic

Yamaha XG Tree
This instrument tree contains all the voices and SFX patches from the standard XG set.

Please note that the official XG groupings contain a few instruments in unexpected places if you're used to GM.  For example, Clavinet is included with the Piano group, and Dulcimer with Chromatic Percussion.  This is the way it's set in the official XG map, so I've leaving it as is.

Also note that if you're running on actual XG software or hardware, choosing an option under Drum Kits will set that staff to drum output, regardless of whether you're on channel 10 or not.  So be wary if you do this and then go back and listen to the song with GM, as it will probably result in an atonal hurricane.

EDIT: Fixed a mistake in the tree; I had all the Ethnic instruments listed in Synth Effects.
  • Last Edit: 2006-05-14 06:32 pm by Arrow

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #1
G'day Arrow,
sorry it's taken me so long to get back to you - had another little project on and didn't want to get too diverted...

Just downloaded your XG itree - Thanks.  Much better layout than mine.  I will be including it into my default itree.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums - gonna lern tubies next

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #2
I would like to download this Itree but am a little wary as I don't really understand how these things work. Does this import sound fonts? Can you change back and forth between trees? How is that done if it is possible? Does it change the sound of music already written? If I send a song to someone else who doesn't have the same Itree, will the renderings be different from what I hear on my machine? I know these questions sound kind of dopey, but I'm just not so hi-tech. It would be nice if my computer sound card rendered instruments the same as my keyboard, I suppose that is the idea? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #3
Quite a few questions here - and others may be able to answer better - but I'll have a go.

Quote
Does this import sound fonts?
  No - not as such, but it will set up information for sound fonts you might have loaded in your sound banks.

Quote
Can you change back and forth between trees?
Yes - but you probably wouldn't want for any particular piece of music.  But that would depend on how you have your itree set up.

Quote
How is that done if it is possible?
Go to the properties for the staff (F2) . Select the instrument tab. Click on pre defined instruments.  At the bottom right of the dialogue box you will see a "Change Instrument" box. You can change to a different Itree there . (Make sure that you save all your itrees to the location specified in "Tools Options Folders Instrument trees"

Quote
Does it change the sound of music already written?
  That all depends on what you have configured in your Itree. For example, If you have selected a standard GM Trumpet - patch 56 from your Instrument list - it would sound one way. But if you always have a trumpet sound font loaded into a certain bank in your sound bank, then the itree can be set up to have all of the details for that so that you do not manually have to make all of the changes. Just by selecting the itree record for the trumpet in that soundbank - will mean that everything is set up for you. Obviously if you use this to set up your file, and then email the file to someone who does not have sound fonts - then the music will sound rather strange.

Quote
If I send a song to someone else who doesn't have the same Itree, will the renderings be different from what I hear on my machine?

See answer above - it depends on what you do with itrees. The fact that they don't have the same itree will not matter, since the tree is not saved with the music. It's whatever you have done to the music using the itrees.

If you can imagine that itrees are a library of reference cards for Noteworthy.  All of the things that you are likely to do with instruments and dynamics could be stored in this reference library. When you want to do something, you go and look for the reference sheet that tells you how to do it. you could actually read the reference sheet and then physically do it in NoteWorthy - but you don't have to since NoteWorthy will do it for you using the itree reference card.

One last example using this analygy.

You tend to set up a few orchestral pieces of music.

Each time you do that, you know that you use a trumpet in Bb.
You go to the Itree reference Library and look up Trumpet in Bb and it tells you that this is patch 56, and in order to sound properly in an orchestral piece, you will need to set the transposition to minus 2 and in order to merge in with other instruments in the orchestra, you need to set the overall volume down a bit. In addtion, because of your own sound card, when the trumpet is playing ppp (can trumpets do that ????? ) it's so quiet it can't be heard so you need to set the default sound level of ppp for the trumpet to a bit louder.

You could now go and manually do all of that. But if you select the correct instrument from the itree and you have configured it properly, it will do it for you . When you save your music, those settings are saved with your music (but the itree is not).  So if you send the music to someone else - all that is important is that the setting is there - they don't need to know anything about the itree at all. They don't even need to know that itrees exist.

Finally with respect to the Yamaha XG tree, these will be the default settings for anyone who uses the Yamaha XG synth. If you don't use that- you don't need it. But that is a specific Itree for Yamaha - many people have compound Itrees that cover a whole range of situations they might use.


Hope this helps

Rich.

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #4
Thanks for taking the time to explain all of that Rich. My problem is this: When I write music on the computer,I can convert to midi>copy to floppy> then stick it in the keyboard and it will play. The keyboard is Yahama XG and the instrument patches are not necessarily the same as the computer sound card, therefore I don't really know how instruments will be rendered when the keyboard gets a hold of the midi info., and it is generally a poor translation even though the keyboard has superior synths in general. If the trees are the same, I suppose that I will hear a pretty close likeness from the comp. sound card while I am actually writing the piece?
I will have to re-read your response about 20 more times before it begins to sink in. I just don't have the head for this stuff. My last bout with copmuter programming was with Fortran IV many years ago in college.
It won!
Thanks again
DF

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #5
Fitzclan, check your NWC scores that you are saving as MIDI files for the F2 Instrument properties for each staff.  No matter what synth plays your MIDI file back, you will get more consistent results on a variety of playback synths if you stick to General MIDI patches in your NWC file.  You may even want to save 2 or more versions of your NWC scores if you use patches unique to Yamaha XG or Roland GS and indicate what synth the piece is tailored to in the file name.

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #6
Thanks Milton. You know that is a good idea. I have tried switching to GM after a piece is written, and the difference is amazing. Almost can't recognize the piece as the renderings are so different, that's why I was wondering about sending songs to someone else. Of course, lap tops have poor sound quality on top of everything else.  It would be nice if NWC (and the player),had it's own synths so that at least the renderings would be standardized. At this rate, we have no idea what is being heard on the other end. Thanks for your input.

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #7
This may sound silly to some, but once downloaded, how do I install the itree into the itree folder of NWC?

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #8
G'day Fitzclan,
installing it is easy, just copy it into the:
"c:\programs files\noteworthy composer 2\itrees"
folder (I think that's the corrsct path, I'm not at my PC at the moment).  Then you can access it as described above.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums - gonna lern tubies next

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #9
Well alright.  Lawrie Pardy to the rescue once again! Thanks a bunch. That was easy.

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #10
Aw shucks [glow=red,2,300]<blush>[/glow], but fair's fair.  Rich put in a lot more effort than me!
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums - gonna lern tubies next

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #11
Hi Fellas-

'New here.
I found this software site on an internet cafe pc.
I've been noodling for years with midi and audio (I woke up one morning last week and discovered I'm an old coot these days), regardless-
I have a 5 track Yamaha XG set up and expect to be throwing some questions your way.
'Don't like Cubasis ... don't need more than four of five AUDIO tracks anywayz.
I'm using "HIT KIT"

Q) Do you have a post that talks about the meaning of "XG TREE"?

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #12
In the context of this thread, "XG Tree" refers to an instrument definition file (attached to this topic) that "contains all the voices and SFX patches from the standard" Yamaha XG instrument set. Quotes refer to content in the first post of this topic. This file is useful in the NWC2 program. If you are not using NWC2, then this file will probably not be of much use to you.

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #13
hola amigos, como consigo el Yamaha XG Tree , alguien me puede decir. si es asi mle doy mis gratidud adelantada, maedgoi@hotmail.com. gracias.

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #14
>si es asi mle

¿Asi como qué? "mle"?

Puedes conseguir el Yamaha XG Tree utilizando el link al final del mensaje de Arrow (el primer mensaje).
En todo caso la dirección es ésta:
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?action=dlattach;topic=5553.0;attach=61

Hola
Maurizio

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #15
I forgot all about i-trees, and I still am stuck with a crummy sound card that doesn't support sound fonts. (can't seem to find the x-tra cash for the x-fi gamer), but I do have a new yammie keyboard.
My question is this; Is it possible to set up an i-tree with the instrument definitions or patches in the new keyboard so that when I select instruments when writing with NWC they will then coincide with the instrument patches in the keyboard? This way I will know what to expect soundwise when I plug a midi into the keyboard via USB.
If so, how difficult a project am I looking at? Thanks. Duncan

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #16
Well, as far as I know that's exactly what i-trees are for!

You simply have to get somewhere the list with the names and MIDI numbers (banks and program) of your keyboard patches and put it, with a minimal effort, in NTWPATCH.INI (NWC1) or in a .nwcitree file (NWC2).

The syntax is fairly simple if you start from an existing file.

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #17
Fitzclan,

Obviously we may all differ on what is an acceptable cost, but here in UK I can get a Creative Audigy SE7 PCI sound card for around £20 delivered ( Pixmania)
This is the sound card I use on my PC and with a half decent speaker/amplifier setup the sound quality is very good   I have a number of Pipe Organ sound fonts installed and they make a great difference to organ pieces played back on NWC.

Tony

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #18
Well Tony, all was well until I purchased a new computer with Vista. Need I say more? Of course I can't go backwards as my old pc died. I will however give the i-tree a try when I get a moment. Thanks guys. I'll surely be back for more questions when I get on to it. Cheers.

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #19
Fitzclan,

Reading up other people's experiences with Vista and both sound and video cards, quite a few are loading XP in additio0n to Vista and using dual booting  so that they can use XP for certain programs.  But this is a big thing to have to do. And you have to have room on the PC for the sound card.

Tony

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #20
Thanks Tony. I would never attempt such a feat as dual operating systems, however my birthday is coming up soon. Perhaps I will request a new sound card. Even if I had the X-Fi Gamer, I would like to have the i-tree to match my Yammie. I could definately get into that. As it stands, I can't even finish the piece I last started as I would like to orchestrate it to a moderate degree. The sound is so bad that it's just not worth the effort. On top of that I still haven't figured out how to get the auto save feature to work in NWC in Vista, so I have to manually save every few minutes. Way too aggrieving.

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #21
One more thing. When using MS Word to construct an i-tree, is there a specific font or size that must be used? Thanks. -D

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #22
No. You have to save as simple text, so the font does not matter as it would not be saved anyway.

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #23
G'day Duncan,
mate, I might have a solution for you - I've been playing with it on my vista notebook "testbed".

There is a VST host called, wait for it, "VSTHost"...  It's a freebie and works with vista just fine.  Used in conjunction with MIDIYoke, the VST version of "Synthfont" and a suitable sound font it works quite well.

I'll post more details when I have some time - next day or so...

I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums - gonna lern tubies next

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #24
G'day Duncan,
'ave a look 'ere mate:
https://forum.noteworthycomposer.com/?topic=6528.0

Hope it helps.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums - gonna lern tubies next

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #25
Hi Lawrie,
Wow! That looks like an awful lot to chew! I shall have to re-read it several times before diving in. Most of it sounds over my head. Thanks for all of the explaining, I'm sure it took a while to run through all of that. You know I'll be back once I get started.
Thanks again. -D

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #26
G'day Duncan,
mate, you won't have any trouble.  There are really only 4 major steps.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals 'n youfonymums - gonna lern tubies next

Re: Yamaha XG Tree
Reply #27
oh, thank you so much...
i really want to this...