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Topic: beams across barlines (Read 6572 times) previous topic - next topic

beams across barlines

I don't know if this is a wish list item or a bug report, so I'm posting it here.

I need to beam a group of 8th notes across a barline in a score using orchestral staves. Since NWC won't beam across barlines (there's the wish list item), the logical approach is to use layering and simply leave out the barline in the staff with the beamed notes. But when I do that, and activate layering, the barlines on the layered staff don't quite connect to the barlines in the staves above and below - vertical gaps are left that are roughly the width of the space between two ledger lines at the current score's font size (there's the bug).

Has anyone found a way around this little peculiarity? Is there a chance it could be eliminated in an upcoming release? If there's a reason one might need non-connecting barlines in an orchestral score (I can't think of one), could we at least have adjustable barline lengths so we can grow them together when a gap like this occurs?

Re: beams across barlines

Reply #1 –
G'day William,
Quote from: William Ashworth –
...the barlines on the layered staff don't quite connect to the barlines in the staves above and below - vertical gaps are left that are roughly the width of the space between two ledger lines at the current score's font size (there's the bug).

It sound to me like you're using orchestral staves, or perhaps upper and lower grand staves and the layered staff does not have the same upper and lower boundaries, or the layered staff is standard rather than orchestral or grand.

Lawrie
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: beams across barlines

Reply #2 –
This comes up frequently. It always seems to be a case of a standard staff that is larger than the orchestral or grand staff that it layers. 

It might help to have the staff sizes (and possibly types) added to Score Review.

An option to show all or just visible staves might be useful as well.
Registered user since 1996

Re: beams across barlines

Reply #3 –
Well, looking at my score (which started life as a copy of the quartet template), I find that all the staves are orchestral but that the upper and lower boundaries are smaller on the added staves. Lawrie and Rick are right. (Thanks. I like the way we all take care of each other so well in this forum.)

Now comes the logical follow-up request: when the "layer with next" box is checked, could NWC not check the size of the staff to be layered with and adjust accordingly? When the two staves to be layered differ in upper and lower boundaries, the smaller boundaries should be adjusted to match the larger ones. It seems as though this could be made automatic with a minimum of programming (though, as I said once before, I know just enough programming to be dangerous).

Re: beams across barlines

Reply #4 –
G'day William,

Quote from: William Ashworth –
...
Now comes the logical follow-up request: when the "layer with next" box is checked, could NWC not check the size of the staff to be layered with and adjust accordingly? When the two staves to be layered differ in upper and lower boundaries, the smaller boundaries should be adjusted to match the larger ones. It seems as though this could be made automatic with a minimum of programming...

Actually, I think I would resist making this automagic...  There are times when you actually don't want the staves to have the same boundaries. 

E.G. Only in the last few days someone (please forgive me, I forget who it was) wanted to have a set of orchestral staves (or was it grand???) with barlines that did not meet because it did not suit his preference for layout, and interferred with several markings - Dim. and cresc. "hairpins" were the main problem.

The solution was to hide the barlines in the main orchestral/grand staves and use the barlines from the layered, standard, staves.

I'm fairly sure it came up in the news group.

Quote from: Rick G. –

It might help to have the staff sizes (and possibly types) added to Score Review.

An option to show all or just visible staves might be useful as well.


This suggestion is more to my liking...

Lawrie

I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: beams across barlines

Reply #5 –
Well, wonder of wonders, Lawrie, I was about to make the same point about the beta group when this new fangled forum told me a reply had been posted while I was replying and that I might want to check it before hitting Post.

I would also add that it is not uncommon to have the first and last staff be unusually large to get the right # of systems on the page. I would not like to have the layers be that large.
Registered user since 1996

Re: beams across barlines

Reply #6 –
G'day Rick,
I guess great minds think alike :)
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: beams across barlines

Reply #7 –
"I need to beam a group of 8th notes across a barline in a score using orchestral staves"

Write the notes on one staff but don't put a bar line where the subject notes are.  Use an otherwise blank second staff to fake the bar line, layered.  Everything except the bar lines on this new staff should be muted and made invisible.