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Topic: Beaming (Read 4330 times) previous topic - next topic

Beaming

Two questions.
1. Forgetting the midi for a moment (which can simply be created in a hidden staff) is there any way to beam across staves?  I know there were a few questions about this about two years ago, but most of their solutions have been upgraded out of possibility.  I will give an example of what I mean.

There are four eighth notes being played, one right after the other, two on each staff (we'll call it a piano for right now).
Example of how midi would play it:

Staff 1

Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:-9|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-7|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Staff 2

Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Up,Beam=End
|Rest|Dur:4th|Opts:Stem=Up|Visibility:Never
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Now, in the song, the four notes are beamed together, and slurred together, with stems pointing the same direction as in the sample above (top staff pointing down, bottom staff pointing up).  Is there any way to do this?

2. (and very closely related to question 1) Is there any way to have beamed notes with stems pointing different directions?  An example would be, in a treble staff, 2 middle c's with stems pointing upwards, one high f (top line) with the stem pointing downwards, and two more middle c's with stems pointing upwards.  All of them would be beamed together, with the high f pointing down to the beam which would most likely be just below the middle of the staff.  Please note that this is simply an example.

However, if I was to beam them, suddenly all of the stems would be pointing up, which isn't what I want.

Is there any way to get the lower notes to point up while the higher note points down and still have them beamed?

3. (okay, I know I just said two, but...) If the answer is no to the above questions, are these things other people have wondered about and are they something we should bother the wishlist people about?

Re: Beaming

Reply #1 –
you could manipulate the stem lengths so that the beams overlap one another to make it look like one beam, but aside from that i don't think you can

Re: Beaming

Reply #3 –
By all means "bother" the wishlist.  That's what it's for.  The more people who request something, the more the company knows what is in demand.

Re: Beaming

Reply #4 –
One thing I just noticed is this (which probably has been used before).
In article 153 that was referenced to earlier, there was explained a way (used in the Scriptorium under the file Faureve.nwc) that you could simply place the notes in the bottom staff with no ledger lines and then transpose them (but the staves had to line up exactly right).  I've just discovered that, as in the example below, you can do the same thing without having to worry about where the staves are placed or how to transpose them.  In the example below you will need two staves, the top one with a lower boundary of 12, and the bottom one with an upper boundary of 10.

Top Staff

Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:Bb,Eb
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-9z|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-7z|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0,Beam=End
|Rest|Dur:4th|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-9z|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-6z|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=0,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Bottom Staff

Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Bass
|Key|Signature:Bb,Eb
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Upward,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Upward,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:13|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam,NoLegerLines,Muted
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:15|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End,NoLegerLines,Muted
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Upward,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Upward,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:13|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam,NoLegerLines,Muted
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:16|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End,NoLegerLines,Muted
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
The last two notes of each run (which are horrid to listen to) are muted, while the notes in the top staff are open headed notes with zero stem length.  This takes care of the beaming, the slurring, and the extra midi notes that don't fit in the run.  Now, I understand that this is not an absolute cure-all, because I'm sure there are many instances where this will not suffice, and it most likely has been used before, but I just thought I'd share it.

Re: Beaming

Reply #5 –
If I understand correctly, the notes in the top staff create the leger lines and the sound of the 3rd and 4th notes in each group.  That's cool.

You can keep the slur from touching the 3rd notehead in each group by adding a hidden, muted grace note just before the note, and moving it up until it nudges the curved line upward, like so:

Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Bass
|Key|Signature:Bb,Eb
|TimeSig|Signature:4/4
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:-4|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Upward,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:64th,Grace|Pos:9|Opts:Stem=Down,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:0|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Upward,Beam
|Note|Dur:64th,Grace|Pos:16|Opts:Stem=Down,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:13|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam,NoLegerLines,Muted
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:15|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End,NoLegerLines,Muted
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Upward,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,Slur=Upward,Beam
|Note|Dur:8th,Slur|Pos:13|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam,NoLegerLines,Muted
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:16|Opts:Stem=Down,Beam=End,NoLegerLines,Muted
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Is there a way to tweak this so that stem up 8th notes in the bass clef beam to stem down 8th notes in the treble clef?
 

Re: Beaming

Reply #6 –
Yes, it's amazing what ideas and workarounds are discovered when you have a large group of people working on it.  One idea just feeds off of another, and another, and again, and again...

Didn't even notice that thing with the slur hitting the third note, though.  Thanks.

As far as I know about the beaming up and down, no.  That is basically what I have been trying to find out, because that is how it is actually written in the song this came from.  The only way I know of is the one given in article 153 that was mentioned earlier, though that way is not even always possible, considering that the stems have to exactly line up, which is sometimes impossible to exactly create.  I think it's wishlist time for this one.