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Topic: MIDI Playback Stops Responding (Read 9404 times) previous topic - next topic

MIDI Playback Stops Responding

I am using an M-Audio Firewire 410 for the MIDI interface.  When the computer is originally started, everything works fine with NoteWorthy.  After using NoteWorthy for a while, both for playback and note entry, NoteWorthy eventually stops being able to play back to the MIDI port.  (No errors, no sound.)  The only solution at that point seems to be to re-boot the computer and re-set the sound card (it is external) at which point everything works ok again for a while only to repeat the condition.  Re-setting the sound card (turning it off and on) without a reboot leaves NoteWorthy hung with a message like "setting up patch cache" in the lower left hand corner.  I am using the most current driver available from M-Audio.  The sound is being created via MIDI on a Yamaha CBX-K1XG.  (Re-setting the Yamaha has no effect on the problem either way.  The keyboard will always play sound correctly from the keyboard.)  The MIDI cables are new and high quality.  Any thoughts?

Re: MIDI Playback Stops Responding

Reply #1 –
In NWC2, are you using the device via the MIDI Mapper or directly?

Re: MIDI Playback Stops Responding

Reply #3 –
In the "Devices used by play back" window "M-Audio FW 410 MIDI" is selected.  Nothing else.

Re: MIDI Playback Stops Responding

Reply #4 –
The message "setting up patch cache" only occurs after I try re-setting the midi interface (sound card) which is a rather far out thing to do to start with.  I would guess that the visibility of this message has more to do with the program not being able to do anything with the MIDI interface, and the program coincidentally hanging there than anything else.  NoteWorthy is not displaying an error window, it just displays the message down in the lower left corner as a status of what it is doing.  Interestingly, the M-Audio is theoretically providing a generic MIDI interface.  The card itself has no sound generation engine in it.

I really doubt that the issue is the keyboard, but who knows.  Here is a link to the keyboard specs. in case it is of any use.

http://www.yamaha.com/yamahavgn/CDA/ContentDetail/ModelSeriesDetail/0,6373,CNTID%253D847%2526CTID%253D208000,00.html

Note that I am NOT using the keyboard's direct to computer interface.  I am using the standard MIDI In/Out connectors.

Re: MIDI Playback Stops Responding

Reply #5 –
If you see the patch cache message (which you clearly do), then it means that your MIDI driver indicates that a patch cache is needed (even though it sounds like it really isn't needed). An external MIDI interface should probably not need a patch cache. This might be a source of some of your problem, but it is hard to know for sure.

Some things to try:

  • You could try using the MIDI Mapper, making sure to select that device in the Control Panel MIDI section.

  • Have you tried closing NWC2 (thus releasing the MIDI device) and then re-opening it?

Re: MIDI Playback Stops Responding

Reply #6 –
Here are more details on the scenario in case they trigger any new ideas.  One suggestion was to evaluate the behavior of NoteWorthy if it was restarted (just the program) after the MIDI playback seemed to fail.  Here is the sequence of events.

- NoteWorthy was working fine, then after cutting and pasting some stave sections playback no longer would happen.  (NoteWorthy would act like it was playing, but no sound would happen.)

- MIDI IN would still work.  (Play a key on the keyboard, and it would show on a NoteWorthy staff.)

- I then saved the file and exited Noteworthy with the idea of re-starting it to see if MIDI playback would be restored.

- NoteWorthy started, but it wouldn't allow anything to happen.  (i.e. select the File menu and the File menu wouldn't come down.)  Nothing would happen within NoteWorthy.  I then tried clicking the [X] in the top right corner to try to close it and Windows 2k displayed a message stating that the program was no longer responding.

Re: MIDI Playback Stops Responding

Reply #7 –
Did you ever try switching to the MIDI Mapper? It might compensate for the patch cache bug in the driver.

Re: MIDI Playback Stops Responding

Reply #8 –
No, I haven't tried switching to the MS MIDI Mapper yet.  I was resisting that change so that normal MIDI stuff that happens on the machine and websites would go through the computer's internal soundcard...not through the keyboard.  (A matter of convenience I suppose.)  That's the next step.  I'm growing a bit weary of the crashing bit at this point.

An additional piece of information on the last crash...  This time the crash happened after starting and stopping a playback several times.  (No copying, etc.)  I just saved the file, exited NoteWorthy, and then attempted to shut down the machine.  Interestingly, even though NoteWorthy wasn't being displayed, Windows brought up a message stating that it was terminating NWC2.

Re: MIDI Playback Stops Responding

Reply #9 –
Just so that I can get a complete an idea of what is going on...  When everything is working correctly, as far as I can tell, the only "patch cache message" is: "Setting up patch cache, if necessary".  Does this message indicate that the MIDI driver is indeed requesting use of a "patch cache"?  I just wanted to confirm this point.  Thanks.

Re: MIDI Playback Stops Responding

Reply #10 –
I have now tried the configuration with NoteWorthy playing through the MS MIDI Mapper which is set to the M-Audio 410...and I have now experienced yet another crash.

This crash occurred during playback.  Everything was going fine, then all of a sudden the notes stuck on, and no new notes were played.  I tried stopping the playback, and the stuck notes continued.  In then tried pressing the stop button again (for all notes off) and the stuck notes still continued.  I then tried closing NoteWorthy and re-starting it.  The program came up, displayed it's helpful hint window which I closed, but the program wouldn't do anything (no File menu, nothing).  The program wouldn't close, etc.  Time for a computer re-start.

Re: MIDI Playback Stops Responding

Reply #11 –
While NoteWorthy is set to play through the MS MIDI Mapper, it still displays the "Setting up patch cache, if necessary" message when starting playback.

Re: MIDI Playback Stops Responding

Reply #12 –
The "Setting up patch cache, if necessary" message is always displayed. The actual call to the driver's midiOutCachePatches only happens when the driver reports MIDICAPS_CACHE in its device capabilities. I thought perhaps the MIDI Mapper would not pass through the cache requests (it was worth a try), but it obviously must do so.

I gather that you are using the latest driver, and that there is not an updated driver available for the hardware. Correct?

Re: MIDI Playback Stops Responding

Reply #13 –
Yes, I am using the most current driver (unfortunately). Version 1.0.2.8 as listed on their webiste from July 2004.

The use of the Microsoft MIDI Mapper seems to have made things more unstable.  It now seems to reliably crash during playback.  Notes stick, and the same thing happens as I described in a previous posting.  I close NoteWorthy and it seems to be closed seems to be closed, but Windows says that it is terminating NWC2 when you shutdown the OS (Win2k).  Another interesting item is that Windows doesn't seem able to even shut down at times after this happens.  Sometimes it helps to turn off the M-Audio 410 (allowing Windows to shut down).

Re: MIDI Playback Stops Responding

Reply #14 –
Regarding the "patch cache" topic.  I know that the message "setting up patch cache" occurred in one scenario as per one of my initial posts.  However, in normal operation, messages other than "Setting up patch cache, if necessary" are not visible.  I am wondering if the "setting up patch cache" message I referred to in the previous post occurred as a result of some corruption somewhere...who knows where...and was thus a side effect of the real problem vs. the cause of the problem.  All of this to ask if there is a more definitive way to know if NoteWorthy is indeed seeing this request given that the message that I am generally seeing will always happen (as per your post).

Re: MIDI Playback Stops Responding

Reply #15 –
I'm looking at possible ways to help this situation in the next release of NWC2.

Re: MIDI Playback Stops Responding

Reply #16 –
The message is always issued, but if the driver does not indicate the need for patch cache operations, it would all happen so fast you would never see the message.

Re: MIDI Playback Stops Responding

Reply #17 –
Thanks for your help.  Let me know if there is anything I can do to assist.

Re: MIDI Playback Stops Responding

Reply #18 –
We are going to give you a way to turn off the patch cache mechanism. Presumably, you will want to test that mechanism. Hopefully, that will help your problem, but its possible that there are other problems in your setup. Time and further testing will tell.

Re: MIDI Playback Stops Responding

Reply #19 –
Preview 1g, available now, defaults to not attempting patch caching. See if that helps.

Re: MIDI Playback Stops Responding

Reply #20 –
I have installed Preview 1g, and have now tested it.  Unfortunately, the situation has not changed.  I played the piece I am working on a couple times, and then went to a specific section (like I have been doing) and started and stopped the playback.  The things I noticed are:

When stopping the MIDI playback on a measure that has a note tied to the next measure, the tied note doesn't seem to turn off when you push Stop.  Pushing Stop again clears the stuck note.  I did this several times (somewhere around 3-5 times) and MIDI playback failed.  Then the same scenario happens.  I closed NoteWorthy, and re-started it.  The "topic for the day" box comes up and I close it.  NoteWorthy won't let any menus be accessed, nor can it be closed, etc., etc., etc.

Let me know if there is more information I can provide.  Thanks for all your help.

Re: MIDI Playback Stops Responding

Reply #21 –
I was afraid of that (the patch cache message being a red herring). You must have a system problem, probably related to your MIDI driver. It could also be hardware related.

Re: MIDI Playback Stops Responding

Reply #22 –
It might help to take a look at this forum :-

http://www.musicplayer.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=forum;f=18

There does appear to be some history of problems with M-audio and USB.

For example :- (yes, i know it's 6 months old)
http://www.musicplayer.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=18;t=010126

It might help to post your questions at that forum ?

In other posts there are good references to M-audio as a company, frequently stating a good email response to technical queries.

You probably already have their website :-

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php

It is possible to download the latest drivers etc. (which i believe you have)

Also, here is the address for the contact form :-

http://www.m-audio.com/index.php?do=support.contact

Good Luck ...