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Topic: Addition of Functioning Breve (Double Whole Notes) (Read 8380 times) previous topic - next topic

Addition of Functioning Breve (Double Whole Notes)

It would be nice to have the functioning Double Whole note option added to the list.  In the Available Tools list under Customize Toolbars, there are 7 note options: 1=Whole Note, 2=Half, etc.  The Double Whole could be 0=Dbl Whole.  This is one omission that is very much needed, especially for those who are transcribing or writing music in the Renaissance, Baroque and Classical style.

Re: Addition of Functioning Breve (Double Whole Notes)

Reply #1 –
Scuse me for being thick, but what would the difference be between a double whole note and two tied whole notes?

I can see that it would look different in the score, but would the actual sound be different?

Re: Addition of Functioning Breve (Double Whole Notes)

Reply #2 –
Strangely, yes, the sound could be different. The breve is used as a chanting note of indefinite length, whereas the duration of two tied semibreves would be quite explicit.

But mainly it is the aesthetics of it all. For instance you wouldn't use two tied minims where the score needs a semibreve.

Re: Addition of Functioning Breve (Double Whole Notes)

Reply #3 –
Ah, I see said the blind man.  So, a breve dosen't actually indicate an exact double length whole note, but however long you need it to be.

I live, and occasionally I learn. ;-)

Thanks.

Re: Addition of Functioning Breve (Double Whole Notes)

Reply #4 –
I'd replace actually with necessarily in your statement. Sometimes it does represent an explicit length.

Re: Addition of Functioning Breve (Double Whole Notes)

Reply #5 –
I've seen it both ways, with the following proviso: in all the cases where it represents an exact length it is in the form of a normal semi-breve with one or two vertical lines at either side; in the cases where it represents an indefinate length (sort of like the semi-breve rest) it can be that form (in modern scores) or it can be a horizontal, open rectangle with the end lines extended above and below the top and bottom lines.

Re: Addition of Functioning Breve (Double Whole Notes)

Reply #6 –
Virtually all the time I see a double-whole note (singing), it is in chant of indefinite duration. The only time I've seen it mean exactly double-whole was in some post-Renaissance music with (I believe) 2/2 time signature.

Sometimes the whole note has a single bar at each end, sometimes two bars at each end. I don't know if this is simply style, or if it means something.

Re: Addition of Functioning Breve (Double Whole Notes)

Reply #7 –
I don't think the single/double bars have a semantic meaning, just style.  I have some 20th century opera with indefinite length breves accompanying recitative, and some late 1500's keyboard music where (in the rectanglar form) they are used in the left hand for various length measures.  I have some mid to late 1800's arrangements of early English songs where they are used with fixed length.  I'm sure I could come up with some other examples of each.

Re: Addition of Functioning Breve (Double Whole Notes)

Reply #8 –
Hmmmm...  I guess that breves, quavers, etc. are the English version of whole, half, quarter, eighth, etc.
But it seems to be a lot easier to me to use a regular mathematical progression (1, 1/2, 1/4, 1/8, etc.) than to remember all those names (breve reminds me of 'brief' which would seem to indicate a smaller duration).

Of course you must remember that this opinion is coming from a person with only a semihemidemiquaver of musical theory (grin).

Re: Addition of Functioning Breve (Double Whole Notes)

Reply #9 –
From what little I know (or have heard), a breve was originally a "brief", i.e. short note, and a semibreve, what you trans-Atlantic types call a whole note, was even shorter. All those young upstarts like minims, crotchets and quavers were much more recent inventions.
What I don't know is, what were the long notes called back in the old days, and does anyone still use them?

RObin

Re: Addition of Functioning Breve (Double Whole Notes)

Reply #10 –
Yes, a breve = a double-whole-note.  I'm a USian, but when talking about the old notes the British usage is easier, otherwise what do you call a breve?  A "2"?

There was a "maxima" = two or three "longa,"which = two or three breves.  At that period notes didn't all sub-divide by two (the binary computer hadn't been invented yet), but either into two or three, depending on the time signature.  For some reason divisions by three were considered "perfect", and by two "imperfect", and there were four basic time signatures.

1. Marked with a large "C", imperfect, imperfect, with the longest note = two second longest, second longest = two third longest.

2. Marked with a large "O", perfect, imperfect, with the longest note = three second longest, second longest = two third longest.

3. Marked with a large "C" with a dot in it, imperfect, perfect, with the longest note = two second longest, second longest = three third longest.

4. Marked with a large "O" with a dot in it, perfect, perfect, with the longest note = three second longest, second longest = three third longest.

So (taking a semi-breve/whole note as the longest) you have:

1.  whole-note = 2 half notes
half note = 2 quarter notes

2.  whole-note = 3 half notes
half note = 2 quarter notes

3.  whole-note = 2 half notes
half note = 3 quarter notes

4.  whole-note = 3 half notes
half note = 3 quarter notes

So, you get the meters equivalent to 2/4, 3/4, 6/8, 9/8, but without dots on the longer notes.

Confused?  It gets worse, but I won't quote the parts on Imperfection and Alteration here -- go check out a good music dictionary.

Re: Addition of Functioning Breve (Double Whole Notes)

Reply #11 –
Weel, I don't know about England. Here in the USA, if you pull a musician's breves too tight in the crotchet, it's called a "wedgie."

Re: Addition of Functioning Breve (Double Whole Notes)

Reply #12 –
-
Sorry, haven't read the whole thread but I agree that the inclusion of breves and longas would be convenient.
_

Re: Addition of Functioning Breve (Double Whole Notes)

Reply #13 –
Much of the thread actually concerns music of the Middle Ages. The "perfect" circle represented triple time, therefore "perfect" like the Holy Trinity. The "imperfect" circle, our Common time, was represented by a C. Now, you see, all becomes clear. Thanks for the contributions.

Re: Addition of Functioning Breve (Double Whole Notes)

Reply #14 –
Here's an example of why the breve (double whole note) is needed:

Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Bass
|Key|Signature:Bb,Eb,Ab
|TimeSig|Signature:4/2
|Tempo|Base:Half|Tempo:96|Pos:9
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:4
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:Whole|Pos:4
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:6
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:5
|Bar
|Text|Text:"z"|Font:User1|Pos:7
|Note|Dur:Whole,Slur|Pos:4^|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Whole,Slur|Pos:4^|Visibility:Never
|Bar|Visibility:Never
|Text|Text:"z"|Font:User1|Pos:7
|Note|Dur:Whole,Slur|Pos:4^|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:Whole,Slur|Pos:4^|Visibility:Never
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:4
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:2
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:Whole,Slur|Pos:4^
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:4
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:5
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:6
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:5
|Note|Dur:Whole,Slur|Pos:4^
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:4
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:Half,Slur|Pos:4^
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:4
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:3
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:4
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
(The breves are a text expression using MusiSync, Bold [11].)

The ties and slurs are not visible when the semi breve (whole note) is set to Never under Notation Properties\Visibility.

If a functional breve cannot be added, it would be helpful to have the option where the slurs and ties would remain visible under Notation Properties\Visibility when the note is set to Never, or the possibility of adding ties and slurs to the Text Expressions.

Re: Addition of Functioning Breve (Double Whole Notes)

Reply #15 –
So do we have breves available to us now? Can they be used with text as a musical recitative, i.e. as in Slavonic Orthodox Liturgical Music?

Re: Addition of Functioning Breve (Double Whole Notes)

Reply #16 –
I'd like to renew (or revive) the call for the breve....