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Topic: Version 2 rest and notes together (Read 6532 times) previous topic - next topic

Version 2 rest and notes together

I've found another glitch in the Version 2 pre-release that is worth warning about.

In treble clef, first add a minim (half note) rest.  Then <CTRL> enter a semibreve (whole note) on E4 (E above middle C).  Note that the minim rest has risen half a space, so that -at quick glance - it now looks like a semibreve rest?  It prints this way, too.

If you can live with this, good for you.  If not, layering provides a solution.  But it's a bit sledge-hammer for something that used to work quite well.  I hope it's just a typo in the programming, and Noteworthy picks it up before the full release (hint, hint).

Cheers,
Ewan

Re: Version 2 rest and notes together

Reply #1 –
It also misplaces a semibreve rest chorded with a dotted semibreve.

And in passing, another strange quirk. If you take that combination and click the dot icon then the rest becomes dotted too. But clicking it again just undots the rest. If you do this with two chorded notes then it will either dot or undot both notes.

And amazingly, if you use the double dot icon then you can get a double dotted semibreve rest chorded with a dotted semibreve. In other words the rest is longer than the note!

Re: Version 2 rest and notes together

Reply #2 –
Sadly, the long rest doesn't actually work properly (not that I had a use for such a bizarre combination) since the software assumes that the note is still longer than the rest, so any subsequent notes follow the rest duration rather than the shorter duration.

That just leaves me asking (again) for the ability to insert rests longer than notes in a chord. And, by the by, to make them invisible, as we can now do with note heads in a chord.

As a by-product of this investigation I realised that the treatment of rests using control/shift/up allows improper positioning of rests (indeed, the original point of this thread). If you shift a chord with a rest then only on every second shift should the rest move (and strictly that should be the case on standalone rests too - although there it is in the user's hands to get it right).

As to invisible noteheads - how on earth do you spot them in a chord? They really should leave some sort of trace.

Re: Version 2 rest and notes together

Reply #3 –
You're sort of losing me in the theory, Peter, and I find myself scratching my head.

1/  "...rests longer than notes in a chord. And, by the by, to make them invisible, as we can now do with note heads in a chord."

Why do you need an invisible rest in a chord?  If you don't want to see it, can't you just leave it out?

2/  "As to invisible noteheads - how on earth do you spot them in a chord?"

If you don't want the notehead to be visible, what is it you're trying to print?  If it's only for display purposes, try adjusting the colour settings (Tools, Options, Color, Active hidden notation, Change), I think that will work.

I think your colour settings will help, though.

Re: Version 2 rest and notes together

Reply #4 –
David, I'm not that stupid!

The first reason is to fix a glitch (it's not really a bug). When you chord a tail down crotchet (1/4) with a  tail up quaver (1/8) then follow it with a tail up crotchet and then a tail down quaver then the combined lengths of those notes should be three quavers, but NWC makes it four. The work round is to chord the second crotchet with a quaver rest, and then the final quaver assumes its rightful position. But you can't hide the rest, and musically it is quite incorrect.

The second reason is that you can notate an in line trill. Insert a leading grace note (or notes)(visible or not according to choice) and then the visible long note chorded with a rest equal in length to the leading grace notes. Then follow it with the rest of the trill in invisible notes. But again the rest needs to be hidden.

And I'm not trying to print invisible notes. I was simply asking how you can find a headless note in a chord, or a headless semibreve anywhere. They don't show up in the editor. I think they should appear as they do in the icon bar.

Re: Version 2 rest and notes together

Reply #5 –
What's the difference between a glitch and a bug?

Re: Version 2 rest and notes together

Reply #6 –
Oh, but you can hide the rest.
Drag it outside of the staff (either above or below as needed), place a text item (highlighted white) to the right of the rest, right-align it, and BOOM! there it is, gone!

Re: Version 2 rest and notes together

Reply #7 –
I know - it's a technique which I have suggested in the past, but apart from being klunky, there's no white highlight colour. And if you change one of the other highlights to white then the file is only usable on your machine. And not even then in the Player.

And a bug is a definite fault, a glitch is more an inconvenience. In this case the behaviour is understandable and consistent, but on reflection, since the notation is actually not interpreted correctly by NWC, it is a real bug.

Re: Version 2 rest and notes together

Reply #8 –
...then the file is only usable on your machine.
Well, I need it to be usable only on my machine anyway.
So I have had white as a "highlight" ever since color became available (which was less than a week after I purchased a WHOLE bunch of "white-out" type supplies at Office Max...).