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Topic: Midi Volume and Note Velocity (Read 9383 times) previous topic - next topic

Midi Volume and Note Velocity

Midi Volume & Note Velocity

I do not understand the difference, so far as Noteworthy Composer is concerned, between MIDI Volume and Note Velocity. Both can be used to control the loudness of a note, but neither appears to affect any other note parameter. The only difference in function which I have found is that MIDI Volume seems to give a more evenly graded change in loudness than Note Velocity when using Dynamic Variances (eg crescendo), especially when a fairly rapid change is called for. One might assume that Note Velocity also affects attack time, but this doesn't appear to be the case.

Is there something I have missed, or is there a recommended preference for one or the other?

Re: Midi Volume and Note Velocity

Reply #1 –
Volume is just that, like a volume control. I think it applies to a whole channel. Note velocity applies to each note down (MIDI also has a note up velocity but nobody ever used it).

The difference is that most good MIDI boxes will alter note timbre with velocity. So a piano for instance will sound more percussive and brighter the harder (higher velocity) it is played.

You noticed , as many of us have, that MIDI Volume seems to give a more evenly graded change in loudness than Note Velocity when using Dynamic Variances (eg crescendo). Noteworthy explained that the problem is with accumulated rounding in getting the maths right. I personally would like to see that part of the program rewritten so that it works as expected.

Andrew

Re: Midi Volume and Note Velocity

Reply #2 –
I am particularly interested in entering and playing Classical style piano but am presently limited to using a PC and associated software. Does software exist that will change the "note timbre" with Note Velocity? It seems that such a capability has to be provided outside Noteworthy (or does it?). If so, it would be also helpful to know of a "good MIDI box" (at a knock down price).

Paul

Re: Midi Volume and Note Velocity

Reply #3 –
Paul Dann said: "Does software exist that will change the "note timbre" with Note Velocity?"

Not exactly. Most new sound cards have moved away from FM synthesis, and are now using "wavetables" ie samples of the real sound. They then crossfade from a low-velocity sample to a high velocity sample as the midi velocity increases. This sort of technology has been on (keuboard-based) samplers for years, but is now firmly esconced in many midi boxes.

He went on to say "It seems that such a capability has to be provided outside Noteworthy (or does it?)."

Yes. Though sseyo's algorithm-driven machine can do similar things in software if you have enough memory.

And lastly "It would be also helpful to know of a "good MIDI box" (at a knock down price)."

I'd suggest going to your nearest music store, asking what's on special and giving it a good listen to. They'll normally happily link a midi box to a keyboard for you. Pay attention to instruments you are most likely to use. Mine (a GoldStar GS1000R) has a good set of pianos, but the dulcimer is detuned. Very annoying for me as my dulcimer player doesn't play like that.

You could also try on board sound cards. Again, find your favourite supplier, bring along a good couple of midi files, and ask for a go.

Cheers,

Andrew

Re: Midi Volume and Note Velocity

Reply #4 –
Andrew did a good job of explaining volume versus velocity in earlier replies. Thanks Andrew. I just wanted to addd that the dynamic variance using MIDI velocity changes has been fixed in the next NWC upgrade, which is version 1.30g. Look for details from this web site in March.

One other point: this fix will not impact the nature of how your sound card actually responds to volume versus velocity changes. Different synthesizers use different logical implentations for responding to MIDI note and volume commans which are beyond the control of MIDI sequencing and play back software such as NoteWorthy Composer.

I hope this helps.

Eric, support@noteworthysoftware.com

Re: Midi Volume and Note Velocity

Reply #5 –
If you want software that allows you to change note velocity, and sounds like a piano, try microsoft direct music producer. Its bundled as part of DirectX 8 development kit from msdn.

Re: Midi Volume and Note Velocity

Reply #6 –
Just a question: what do you need (processor, version of window$, memory amount) at least to have DirectX 8 working properly? I have no intention to lose my working version for a recent-and-not-working ( à la XP ) DirectX version.

BTW, I had the sensation that this kinf of difference was audible with Yamaha SoftSynth 50; am I wrong? Or did I extrapolate it from the differnce I experienced versus SB16 :)
...
HTH

Re: Midi Volume and Note Velocity

Reply #7 –
marsu -

DirectMusic was included with DirectX versions as early as 6.something, but was buggy and not really usable until V7.0a. I've not seen (heard) a significant difference in V8.0, I think most of the improvements in V8 have to do with web stuff, streaming and so on. I've noticed no significant changes in "upgrading" from V7.0a to V8.0, and we have V8.0 installed on our teenager's P133 with no ill effects. (It even plays DX-Ball with no trouble.)

If all you want to do is listen to midi files using DirectMusic, you don't need the whole DM Producer (big download, about 25 megs IIRC) or SDK (even bigger, about 100 megs). You can just get a DM midi player. A very simple one from the SDK is available here. There's others available also.

And yes, the SoftSynths will indeed attack differently at various velocities, but only AFAIK on percussive instruments such as piano. You can try it out yourself, play a note at fff and a note a p, and adjust channel volume so that the loudness is about the same.
HTH
Fred

Re: Midi Volume and Note Velocity

Reply #8 –
PS - One of the tracks on my CD were done specifically using DirectMusic. The midi file is here if you want to test out your DM system and player.

Re: Midi Volume and Note Velocity

Reply #9 –
PPS (sorry about the multiple posts) - All our systems here are on Win95c (aka OSR 2.5) and do fine on DX8.0.

Intel PII/400, 256 meg RAM
AMD K6-II/500, 192 meg RAMIntel P133, 24 meg RAM

Re: Midi Volume and Note Velocity

Reply #10 –
Fred, thx for the answers! I'll try it asap.
If DX-Ball runs fine, then ok. I looooooove that game :)

No NWC in 16bits on your PCs then? Am I the last one with my Win3.11 in this terrifying world that competes to GHz ?

CUL8r

Re: Midi Volume and Note Velocity

Reply #11 –
No marsu, you're not the only anachronist. My main machine (K6-II/500) is dual boot, using a separate D drive that can be booted into DOS 6.22/Win3.11 by changing boot drive in bios. My shop computer is the trusty old 486-DXII, complete with NWC for those times when I need to take a break from building valve amplifiers. (You see, I'm an anachronist in other ways too!) :)

Fred