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Topic: short cymbal notes (Read 3547 times) previous topic - next topic

short cymbal notes

I have a piece of music in which there are many short cymbal notes, such as one would play by striking the cymbals against each other and then muting them against your body, or as a suspended cymbal being struck by a stick/mallet and then muted with the other hand.  Even if I use 64th notes with staccato, the cymbal notes continue to ring.
Is there some way to achieve what I'm trying to do?  Please help.

TIA,

Richie
 

Re: short cymbal notes

Reply #1 –
Yes, I've found that to be what happens on my Yamaha synth also. On channel 10 percussion instruments, even though a note-off command is sent, the note isn't turned off!

A solution is to use a volume or expression mpc (preferably the latter, allowing you to use volume for overall staff loudness). Absolute style, two steps; at t=0, set expression to the "normal" value (127 by default), and at t=1 set it to zero. Resolution - as needed to give the effect you desire. Be sure to restore it just before the next note.

Re: short cymbal notes

Reply #2 –
You need to insert an MPC in front of each note.  Pick "Volume", Linear Sweep, Sixteenth, sweepres 1.  Check each box with a value of 1.  Starting with an initial value of 127, go down with values of, say, 74, 33, & zero.  You will probably end up with different values after some experimenting, but that should get you started.

If the piece has ordinary cymbal notes later, you will need another MPC with only an initial value of 127, otherwise your cymbals will be permanently muted.

HTH
Since 1998

Re: short cymbal notes

Reply #3 –
Fred and I were working on our replies at the same time--I got distracted by something away from my PC.

Either MPC would work but in the real world, a cymbal doesn't respond instantly to dampening--it takes a few milliseconds for all the vibrations to quiesce.  Feel free to experiment;  what's important is how it sounds to you.

Fred uses MPC's quite effectively in "Caverns" in your "Samples" folder and in quite a few other pieces as well.
Since 1998

Re: short cymbal notes

Reply #4 –
You might also have other options. The synth and cymbal sound combination that you are using might have support for muting the sound. Check to see if there is a corresponding mute sound associated with the cymbal sound that you are triggering. The mute sound might be just what you are after to shut off the note sound. Also, there are shorter sound samples that also can be used to create the sound you are after. In these cases, though, you are probably venturing beyond the General MIDI standard except for those few mute sounds included in the standard (see the included DrumRef.nwc sample for a list of the standard sounds). You should probably start with the Hi-Hat sound pair, so you can acquaint yourself with how this technique works (refer to this hi-hat sample).

Additional Info: There are also more expensive solutions to this problem. For example, digital drum kits will often have multiple triggers on the cymbal pads, with the outer pad being used for muting. When combined with a sound module that supports this, a very good facsimile of analog cymbals can be achieved. For example the Roland TD-10 Percussion Sound Module (part of their V-Drum concert package) supports both multiple triggers on the cymbal sounds, as well as controllers that are used to express the location of strike contact with the pad. When combined with a pad that supports these parameters (or software that sends the same trigger MIDI events), the percussion expression can be quite good.

Re: short cymbal notes

Reply #5 –
That's two things I didn't know. The mute sound, and the fact that you can have local repeat close without the corresponding local repeat open!

Re: short cymbal notes

Reply #6 –
Sorry it took so long to get back here.  If only life did revolve around music...
Couldn't find any mute sound anywhere, and the hi-hat sample wasn't even close to taking care of the situation, but the MPC works quite well.  I didn't make it as complicated as Warren Porter's example (I ignored the sweepres).  There is only one place in the [abbr=not a “song” as NWC would have us believe...]composition[/abbr] where it is not so good.  There is one measure of bass drum notes on the beats and short cymbal crashes off the beats, and I lose the bass drum notes because of the MPCs.  I added additional MPCs to regain the bass drum notes, but then the cymbal restarts in mid-ring.  I'll keep working on that one.

Thanks, all,
Richie