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Topic: Width of natural sign in NWC2STDA.TTF (Read 8464 times) previous topic - next topic

Width of natural sign in NWC2STDA.TTF

Recently, I needed to do this key change:
Quote
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Key|Signature:F#,C#,G#,D#,A#
|Rest|Dur:Whole
|Bar|Style:Double
|Key|Signature:C
|Bar|SysBreak:Y|Visibility:Never
|Rest|Dur:Whole
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Admittedly, not something that occurs often, but the cancellation looks much too narrow.

Using a font editor, I found that increasing the glyph width of the natural sign from 295 to 346 solved the problem. This does not affect the normal postioning of the natural sign with respect to notes, but I have not tested it for other side effects.

IMO, this should be investigated as a permanent change to NWC2STDA.TTF
Registered user since 1996

Re: Width of natural sign in NWC2STDA.TTF

Reply #1 –
Agreed. The naturals really shouldn't appear to touch each other.

Re: Width of natural sign in NWC2STDA.TTF

Reply #2 –
G'day Rick,
I notice that of all my font suites only SwingDings doesn't have this problem.  Not because of increased spacing but because of a different angle of slant to the glyphs themselves.

If NWC go ahead with a modification I will also undertake to change the *Dings suites to match.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Width of natural sign in NWC2STDA.TTF

Reply #3 –
Quote from: Lawrie Pardy –
If NWC go ahead with a modification I will also undertake to change the *Dings suites to match.
The modification I suggest is only to the font. No change to NWC2.exe would be needed. If the *Dings suites look OK now, there should be no reason to change them.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Width of natural sign in NWC2STDA.TTF

Reply #4 –
Only NWC2SwingDings is OK.  NWC2MusikDingsSans, NWC2MusikDingsSerif and NWC2HiVisLP all behave the same as NWC2STDA
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Width of natural sign in NWC2STDA.TTF

Reply #5 –
IMHO, I think it's better to have the font glyphs be the minimum possible width, and let the code insert the proper spacing after an accidental, depending on its context.  IMHO, the natural sign glyph should stay like it is, and the sharp and flat sign glyphs should actually be changed to get rid of extra right-side padding.  Either way, the example given should be fixed!

Re: Width of natural sign in NWC2STDA.TTF

Reply #6 –
IMO, glyph widths should be set to provide proper spacing in some context. If NWC uses the same glyph in another context it may need to manipulate the width or spacing, or use the horizontal metrics of some other glyph as a basis for positioning.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Width of natural sign in NWC2STDA.TTF

Reply #7 –
I think the width = 346 looks much better.  Just my 2¢.
Jim in Cleveland

Re: Width of natural sign in NWC2STDA.TTF

Reply #8 –
That the naturals should have some spacing, as in the "346" example above, is not at all in question.  The issue is that the "346" appearance can be obtained by artificially growing the glyph, or by allowing the program to add spacing after the glyph based on the context in which it appears (e.g. in key signatures vs before notes).

Re: Width of natural sign in NWC2STDA.TTF

Reply #9 –
Hi Rick - I did a bit of work in this area, actually shrinking all the key signature glyphs (and others as well) to their minimum sizes, and then having the code handle all possible sequencing of sharps, flats, and accidentals in a key signature.  I hope the spacing is now to your liking. - Randy

Re: Width of natural sign in NWC2STDA.TTF

Reply #10 –
I noticed. When NWC 2.5 goes into general release I will be moving:
from the "not fixed" area in my Bug List.

It works for me but that is not the approach I would have taken.
Ignoring the width in the font affects font designers who now cannot make these glyphs wider than NWC2STDA. Perhaps the new 'Spacer' object can overcome this.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Width of natural sign in NWC2STDA.TTF

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Randy Williams –
...actually shrinking all the key signature glyphs (and others as well) to their minimum sizes, and then having the code handle all possible sequencing of sharps, flats, and accidentals in a key signature.

How will this affect my oversize Segno and Coda target in the *Dings suites???  (I will be updating them for 2.5)
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Width of natural sign in NWC2STDA.TTF

Reply #12 –
Quote
Ignoring the width in the font affects font designers who now cannot make these glyphs wider than NWC2STDA.

I'm sorry Rick, but I'm not understanding the issue.  Font designers can still make these glyphs as wide as they want to.  The code now sequences the glyphs one after another, with a bit of spacing (one-fourth the width of a natural glyph) in between each.  The only thing I feel like I took away was the ability to pack the glyphs in extremely close together, which I thought was the original problem!  Can you help me understand better?  Is it perhaps just that I wasn't clear that each glyph follows right after the previous (no matter how big the previous one was)?  There is no hard-coded fixed offset that the program jumps to, which would indeed have limited the size of the glyphs.

Re: Width of natural sign in NWC2STDA.TTF

Reply #13 –
Quote from: Randy Williams –
I'm sorry Rick, but I'm not understanding the issue.  Font designers can still make these glyphs as wide as they want to.
Sorry Randy, I misunderstood what you did.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Width of natural sign in NWC2STDA.TTF

Reply #14 –
Quote
How will this affect my oversize Segno and Coda target in the *Dings suites???

Hi Lawrie - Sorry, but I didn't explain myself well here either.  The other glyphs I changed were mostly the articulations as I recall.  And what I did was simply to get rid of extra artificial space before and/or after the glyph.  The program is well designed, and generally sequences glyphs one after the other (or one above or below the other, in the case of articulation "stacks").  Font glyphs can generally be any size you want.  The program just ensures minimal spacing between glyphs (which it can only do if the font is not slipping in extra articficial spacing to any side of the glyph).  Again, sorry I wasn't clear on this point.
 

Re: Width of natural sign in NWC2STDA.TTF

Reply #15 –
G'day Randy,
S'OK mate - ya cleared it up and I'm happy.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.