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Topic: I'm cursing the slurs again... (Read 9193 times) previous topic - next topic

I'm cursing the slurs again...

Is there a cure for the slur direction yet, without having to use workarounds and graphics programs?

Here, the first one is the default, the other two are forced.  None is correct.

Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:-1
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:-1|Opts:Slur=Upward
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:-1|Opts:Slur=Downward
|Note|Dur:Half|Pos:1
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
It should simply be an line curving upward from below the note head of the A to a point midway up the stem of the C.

Early in the private beta test, we saw an experiment with a controllable curve on the desktop, but it never made its way into the program itself.  I sure wish slurs worked properly in this otherwise excellent program.

Re: I'm cursing the slurs again...

Reply #1 –
I'm with you, Dave.  I've been just grinning & bearing it, or just shifting the stem direction, which doesn't always look very good, either.

Re: I'm cursing the slurs again...

Reply #2 –
I too agree.  Mid stem starts and finishes for slurs are seriously lacking.

That having been said, I can appreciate that the coding mods required to achieve this are probably not trivial.  Nevertheless, I believe that the effort will be well worth it.

I don't know whether the best answer is to allow start, finish and centre location control, or simply to add a parameter to the note properties where along with slur direction, a check box or pick list to define start and finish location is available.

The current practice of stem side slurs starting and finishing at the end of the stem is, according to Alfred's, an exception rather than the rule unless the notes are beamed.  When not beamed, stem side slurs should normally start and/or finish mid stem.

Please Eric, we would be grateful if you could give this some consideration.

Lawrie
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: I'm cursing the slurs again...

Reply #3 –
This is another one of those things that can be worked-around by layering: Attach the slurs to phantom notes (invisible heads, stem lengths zero) and have them detour around phantom objects, if necessary. Move things to fit.

Eric seems to prefer automation (program does the thinking), but my guess is that slurs are too tough to handle that way, without user programming. Hand-draw isn't really necessary, though. Dialog properties box ought to do it.

Re: I'm cursing the slurs again...

Reply #4 –
Hiya Robert,
what you say is quite correct, but for something so fundamental wouldn't it be better to have those controls built in?

Lawrie
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: I'm cursing the slurs again...

Reply #5 –
There's one problem with slurs that could easily be fixed. When you have more than two notes as here:

Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|TimeSig|Signature:3/4
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:2
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1
|Bar
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:1
|Note|Dur:4th,Slur|Pos:6
|Note|Dur:4th|Pos:-1
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
the slur should end on the tail of the third note, not the head. Forcing it onto the head makes for some very odd parabolic effects!

Re: I'm cursing the slurs again...

Reply #6 –
I would also like to see this bug fixed. The slurs are better than they were in NWC1, but there is still room for improvement in this area. Work-arounds for this type of problem using hidden staves and such create other problems, especially when you decide to edit your work, they can become very time consuming.
Peter, I don't think I've ever seen a slur between three notes that spans octaves like that. Probably not something you would generally run into.

Re: I'm cursing the slurs again...

Reply #7 –
My comment about "dialog properties box ought to do it" was actually in agreement. The properties might be attach to head or tail; endpoint overlaps note or stops before reaching it; up or down; more or less curvature; permitted to pass through other object yes or no; higher or lower than default placement; etc.

What I meant was that given the way NWC works, a hand-drawing tool might not be the way to go.

Re: I'm cursing the slurs again...

Reply #8 –
Another feature that would be nice would be the ability to independently slur or beam stem-up and stem-down chorded notes by selecting either up or down or both directions.  At the present time only one stem direction is slurred or beamed.  The only way to accomplish this now is by layering, and when the music is a large orchestral piece, it gets very confusing and time consuming.  Just a thought.

Re: I'm cursing the slurs again...

Reply #9 –
Sorry not to have jumped back in earlier, I'm experiencing computer difficulties and didn't have NWC2 loaded for a while.

NWC experimented with a line whose curve and length could be controlled with the mouse.  The user could easily control the shape of the curve and its starting and ending points.

This was tested on the desktop.

It seemed to be a perfect answer, but for some reason it never became part of the program.

Re: I'm cursing the slurs again...

Reply #10 –
Sorry for going a bit off-topic...

What about ever being able to beam these notes

Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
without changing the stem direction?

The result would improve the look of many left-hand Piano (or harp...) scores, without having too long stems going up and down your score...
 

Re: I'm cursing the slurs again...

Reply #11 –
Again, sorry for the delay - been out of town.

I think you can do this with a layered staff workaround.  Try this:

Staff 1

Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:5|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=4,Beam=First
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:1|Opts:Stem=Down,StemLength=3,Beam=End,Muted|Visibility:Never
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Staff 2

Code: [Select · Download]
!NoteWorthyComposerClip(2.0,Single)
|Clef|Type:Treble
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-1|Opts:Stem=Up,StemLength=3,Beam=First,Muted|Visibility:Never
|Note|Dur:8th|Pos:-3|Opts:Stem=Up,StemLength=3,Beam=End
!NoteWorthyComposerClip-End
Note that the second note in Staff 1 is muted and hidden, and so is the first note in Staff 2.  By experimenting with stem lengths, you can get the beams to overlap.  Although I've altered the pitches of the invisible notes, it doesn't matter since they're only placeholders and are muted.

The layered staffs and hidden, muted note features are very flexible.  You can even get an almost reasonable result connecting a run between clefs in a piano score, with a certain amount of tinkering.