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Playing back MIDI files on a Rodgers i557 organ

I hope this isn't too off-topic...  I would like to save some of my songs in MIDI format that can be played on a Rodgers i557 organ with a PR-300S computer.  Playback of midi files on the organ is possible, I'm just having difficulty, perhaps with the organ. 

I do know how to save my songs as MIDI files.  I was just wondering if anyone ever has saved midi files for playback on this type of organ. 

Thanks,
Gerald

Re: Playing back MIDI files on a Rodgers i557 organ

Reply #1 –
For those of us who aren't familiar with this keyboard, could you explain how far you've come?

For example, have you transferred the music via floppy or other device already where it is waiting to be played on the keyboard?

Can you see the song on the keyboard?

Are you able to attempt to play it but just aren't happy with it due to distortion or possibly no playback sound?

Re: Playing back MIDI files on a Rodgers i557 organ

Reply #2 –
Maybe it is best to look at this from the other end. If you have a MIDI floppy from the PR-300S that plays on the Rodgers, try reading it on your PC. If you can't, chances are good that your are not going to produce a floppy with your PC that will work. If you can, try copying all the files to your hard drive and then copy them to a blank floppy. If the new floppy plays, try replacing one of the files with your MIDI file. If saving it as a Type 1 file doesn't work, try Type 0.

If you can read the PR-300S floppy, try importing a file into NWC. look at the MIDI Tab for each staff to see what patch is being sent.

It would seem from this link that what you are trying to do is possible.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Playing back MIDI files on a Rodgers i557 organ

Reply #3 –
Hi Bob,

I have saved the MIDI files to a floppy, put the floppy in the unit, which it reads.  The actual titles of the songs come up on the display screen of the PR-300S, and when I press the play button, there is simply no sound, and none of the stops light up (I expected they wouldn't).

I know I cannot possibly get the organ registrations (stops, such as Principale, Gedackt, Clarion, Plein Jeu, Blocke Forte, etc. etc. etc.) on Noteworthy.  I was hoping that when I played back the MIDI file I would be able to set those with one of the programmed thumb pistons.

The computer in the organ records what I play, and saves it on a floppy in standard MIDI format.  The manual is very foggy about playing back from other sources. 

I would like to be able to play back what I compose on Noteworthy on our organ at church.  I could probably compose some pretty neat stuff to play along with on the organ.  It has that capability. 

The computer is basically Roland's MT-200 I think it is...  I haven't tried reading the MIDI files it creates, but I think i will.  It saves them with a different kind of extension.  How my computer will play the digital pipes should be pretty interesting...  I've never tried that before.

Thanks,
Gerald

Quote from: Bob, Deranged Arranger –
For those of us who aren't familiar with this keyboard, could you explain how far you've come?

For example, have you transferred the music via floppy or other device already where it is waiting to be played on the keyboard?

Can you see the song on the keyboard?

Are you able to attempt to play it but just aren't happy with it due to distortion or possibly no playback sound?

Re: Playing back MIDI files on a Rodgers i557 organ

Reply #4 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
If you have a MIDI floppy from the PR-300S that plays on the Rodgers, try reading it on your PC. If you can't, chances are good that your are not going to produce a floppy with your PC that will work. If you can, try copying all the files to your hard drive and then copy them to a blank floppy.

If saving it as a Type 1 file doesn't work, try Type 0.

Couldn't have said it better myself...this is exactly where I would start troubleshooting!

I also suggest you look in the manual, and if there are any samples that you can get offline or from another disk, you might want to try those first, just to make sure you really understand how to do it.

My brother helped me get my Sunrise Remix, Fifth Symphony Tangopolka, and Revolutionary Rap off a floppy onto the keyboard at church so I could play them and see what everyone (the music team) thought of them.  Basically, I think it held eight "places" to store files, and you had to select which of those eight "slots" you wanted to erase to put your new song in.  I don't think it allowed a direct playback from the floppy.

Re: Playing back MIDI files on a Rodgers i557 organ

Reply #5 –
Here are some free MIDI files designed to play on the Rodgers <link>.
If any of these play, let us know (the smaller the file, the better). Then one of us can analyze it to see what it is doing that NoteWorthy is not and possibly advise you as to how to make NoteWorthy conform.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Playing back MIDI files on a Rodgers i557 organ

Reply #6 –
Thanks for the link with the samples.  I am going to copy them to disk and try playing them back on the organ and see what happens.  Since the site says they were designed to be played back on the PR-300, they should work.  If not, it would have to be something with the settings on either the PR-300, the organ itself, or both. 

I'm interested to see, when playing these files back, what effect changing any of the stops will have on the sound (if any).

Re: Playing back MIDI files on a Rodgers i557 organ

Reply #7 –
Judging from the specs page at http://www.rodgersinstruments.com/access_pr300s_specs.html you might want to use MIDI Type 0 files (since it only handles 16 parts), and see if this solves your problem. Also, in NWC, make sure that you are using only one MIDI device in Staff Properties and Tools, Options, Midi.

Re: Playing back MIDI files on a Rodgers i557 organ

Reply #8 –
Thanks for all your help.  I've now got the organ playing back MIDI files I've created using Noteworthy.  Now my question is:

Can I make Noteworthy re-create the sounds of each "pipe" on the organ?  What I mean by that is can I have Noteworthy emulate each pipe, such as Principal 8', Gedackt 8', Spitzflöte 4', Super Octave 2', Mixture IV, etc. etc.? 

The Church Organ sound that comes with Noteworthy is okay, but I would really like to have control over the pipes.  I realize I would probably have to have a staff for each pipe, but I think I could handle that, since it would just have to copy and paste the same notes, and just change the staff properties. 

I can sit at the organ and have control over the sound by pressing a rocker tablet.  I'd love to be able to have the same type of control in Noteworthy. 

I just wish there was a way to get the sounds of each pipe on my computer in Noteworthy.

Re: Playing back MIDI files on a Rodgers i557 organ

Reply #9 –
Quote from: gfolkins –
Can I make Noteworthy re-create the sounds of each "pipe" on the organ?  What I mean by that is can I have Noteworthy emulate each pipe, such as Principal 8', Gedackt 8', Spitzflöte 4', Super Octave 2', Mixture IV, etc. etc.? 

Kinda...  See below

Quote
The Church Organ sound that comes with Noteworthy is okay, but I would really like to have control over the pipes.

This is a common misconception.  The sounds you hear are not supplied by NWC.  NWC outputs via MIDI, it is your MIDI synthesizer that produces the actual sounds.

If you have a Creative sound card that supports sound fonts then there is a sound font bank just for Organs called "Jeux" (actually there are several, but this is the most common one I've seen).

To obtain the organ sounds, you send the appropriate patch information, INCLUDING the MSB/LSB data to select the banks the JEUX sounds are in.  Not as hard as it sounds.  Of course this is all academic if you dont have sound font support.

You could also consider a VST setup but I have no practical knowledge in this area and can't help.

Quote
I realize I would probably have to have a staff for each pipe, but I think I could handle that, since it would just have to copy and paste the same notes, and just change the staff properties. 

I think you mean stop, not pipe, but this is essentially correct.  However, as you say, you could handle that.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Playing back MIDI files on a Rodgers i557 organ

Reply #10 –
Quote from: gfolkins –
I've now got the organ playing back MIDI files I've created using Noteworthy. 
That's nice. Now could you share this info so we can help the next guy?

You should look into ITrees. They should at least let you sync the stop names with the correct patch.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Playing back MIDI files on a Rodgers i557 organ

Reply #11 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
That's nice. Now could you share this info so we can help the next guy?

You should look into ITrees. They should at least let you sync the stop names with the correct patch.

Yes, actually, it's my own stupidity... the organ has it's setting for MASTER VOLUME.  The PR-300S has a volume switch.  That was turned all the way down.  I was looking at the Master Volume in the organ, not the volume switch on the computer.  If I had've looked there, I probably wouldn't have even started this thread!  My bad...

Re: Playing back MIDI files on a Rodgers i557 organ

Reply #12 –
Now we know what to tell the next guy, though! :)  We all make those mistakes.  I do it every day.

Re: Playing back MIDI files on a Rodgers i557 organ

Reply #13 –
Okay, this is what I want to be able to do, and hopefully someone here can help me.  This should be quite impossible! 

I can record and save MIDI files that I create in Noteworthy Composer to a floppy to play on the PR-300S.  They play back perfectly, but with the standard midi "church organ".  It doesn't play through the organ, allowing me to control the stops. 

I want to save a MIDI file to disk, that when I play it back on the organ, I have full control over the sound by the stops that I select. 

When I play a MIDI file back on the PR-300S, how can I make it so I can select what stops I want to activate? 

I like choosing the stops myself, not being locked into the standard midi church organ sound.  I can't load a soundfont into the PR-300S (as far as I know).  I've downloaded and looked at the samples from www.frogmusic.com to see if they could give me any hints.  I couldn't really decipher those, and I don't think they would be much help.

Also, my computer can not read the disk that I save the songs to that I record as I play them on the organ.  So I am unable to look at a MIDI file that I created on the organ because I can't read the disk.

Is what I want to do possible?

Thanks for your help!
Gerald

Re: Playing back MIDI files on a Rodgers i557 organ

Reply #14 –
According to this <link> you should be able to access all the stops thru MIDI program changes. The relevant bits are:
  • MIDI IN/OUT/THRU
  • GM/GS Format MIDI Program Changes

Importanly, it says nothing about needing a System Exclusive (ie, SysEx) dump.
If it needs a SysEx, you will not be able to use MIDI files straight out of NoteWorthy.

I would try playing some of the free frogmusic MIDI's. See if they access the stops or let you change stops. Check the Rodger's User Forums and public newsgroups. Maybe someone will send you a manual.

As to not being able to read the disks. Try to DISKCOPY one. If you can't, try to read it on some other computers. You may have a marginal diskette drive. If you can diskcopy it but cannot read it, that likely means that it is not a(n) MS-DOS file format. Try an Apple and/or UNIX box. There are also freeware/trialware format converters out there.

Obviously it can read a DOS diskette. Perhaps there is a setting on the PR-300S that changes the way it saves files.

Try using a working diskette with a few NWC songs on it that you are now able to play. Using that diskette, try playing a song on the Rodgers and save it the diskette. You might be able to read that.

Finally, it could be that the PR-300S has a wonky diskette dive.
Registered user since 1996

Re: Playing back MIDI files on a Rodgers i557 organ

Reply #15 –
Quote from: Rick G. –
I would try playing some of the free frogmusic MIDI's. See if they access the stops or let you change stops. Check the Rodger's User Forums and public newsgroups. Maybe someone will send you a manual.

The MIDI files from frogmusic's website do in fact access the stops and allow me to change the stops.  My question is how can I create a MIDI file of my own that would allow me to activate the stops I want?

I have the owner manuals for the organ and the pr-300s, but they are certainly not easy to understand, at least for me. 

I was wondering if it is something as simple as changing one of the settings, or do I need to add some kind of midi code? 

I know it can be done.  I'm just dying to figure out how!  I'm fairly new to the organ myself.  I'm still learning all of it's capabilities.  It can do a lot of things I haven't even touched yet. 

Thanks for your help!

Re: Playing back MIDI files on a Rodgers i557 organ

Reply #16 –
I would recommend that you start by importing one of the MIDI files that work the way you want. You can then analyze what is being done, and then incorporate the same technique in your files.

Re: Playing back MIDI files on a Rodgers i557 organ

Reply #17 –
I finally found out the information I was looking for on the Rodgers Organ Users mailing list.

When creating MIDI files for playback through the PR-300S, anything I want to be played on the great manual has to be sent through channel 12, swell manual through channel 13, and pedals through channel 14. 

That's the info I was looking for. 

What I want to figure out now is how to insert those sysex codes into my midi file to change the registrations. 

Re: Playing back MIDI files on a Rodgers i557 organ

Reply #18 –
NWC does not currently provide for SYSEX messages. You would need to add these using a MIDI sequencer.
 

Re: Playing back MIDI files on a Rodgers i557 organ

Reply #19 –
If it's simply channel selection that you need, then NWC does it fine - no sysex commands required - simply set each staff to the required channel through |Staff|Staff Properties|MIDI <tab>|Channel "scroll box"|

If you also want to set extra stops in the MIDI file, then you probably do need sysex commands in which case Noteworthy Onlines recommendation is the next step.
I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.