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Topic: Sharps and flats (Read 14169 times) previous topic - next topic

Sharps and flats

Hello,

My children play trumpet and french horn. I'm importing midi files in NWC, so that I can get the scores out. A problem I have is that I always get sharps. This is Ok for C, F, G. But they are used to read E flat and B flat iso D sharp and A sharp. I tried already numerous things by forcing accidentals, adding keys, audit enharmonic spelling etc.. but all this had side effects by adding more flats or sharps at other notes.
Is there a way to get only following accidentals?: C#, E Flat, F#, G#, B Flat

Kind regards,
Bart

Re: Sharps and flats

Reply #1 –
G'day Bart,
you could try transposing the works.

E.G. if the imported midi is coming us in, say, the key of E. (4 sharps).  If you transpose up 2 semitones (with update staff playback transposition) then the new displayed key will be F which is perfect for your trumpeter, and as an added bonus, the NWC playback will sound the same!  (F contains only Bb in the key sig)

For you hor player I'm not so sure, if it is a Bb horn,m then the same rules will apply, if horn in F then the transposition is different.  In that case you transpose up 7 semitones and the key signature will change to B (5 sharps, not so good).

However if you play around with the initial key first (with no update staff playback transposition) and transpose everything to, say, Eb, Bb, F, C, G or D then the second transposition (with update staff playback transposition) for correct playback so what they play matches what the computer plays.

However, the real solution is for the kids to learn the rest of their fingering - and no, I'm not being impatient, I realise it takes time hence the suggestion above.

Lawrie

Edit - just reread this and noticed a glaring error - transposing from E to F is just 1 semitone up, NOT 2 as stated - sorry folks.

I plays 'Bones, crumpets, coronets, floosgals, youfonymums 'n tubies.

Re: Sharps and flats

Reply #2 –
The kids are going to have to learn enharmonic spellings sooner or later, so why avoid them?  If you must eliminate the accidentals they don't like, I'd start with a simple trick. If there's no key signature, add one.***

Add a new staff, copy the contents of the first staff to the new one.  Audit enharmonic spelling in the second staff.  Make all the notes on this staff invisible.  Mute this staff (although it's not essential).

Now, in the first staff, whenever you encounter an accidental you don't like, make that note invisible, but make the corresponding note on the second staff visible.

Finally layer the two staffs.  You should see only the notes you want to see.

*** To identify the key signature, one trick is to use the first or last note of the piece.  Usually a tune will start or end on the first, third or fifth note of a major scale.  If the first note is E natural and the tune is in a major key, chances are that the key will be A major, C major or E major.  Insert each of them, one at a time, audit accidentals, and see if the sharp and flat signs attached to the notes disappear.  You could do that with all the major and minor keys, but it will be time consuming.

Re: Sharps and flats

Reply #3 –
A major problem arises with minor key where there are sharpened 7th and, sometimes, 6th degree of the scale.

In flat keys, these are still correctly written as sharps, but noteworthy's rule when auditing enharmonic spellings will always set them to the "flat" version e.g. F# becomes Gb in Gminor, though the F# is in fact correct. You can work around this by temporarily adding a sharp key signature, auditing enharmonic spellings then removing the temporary key signature which is OK until you find a mixture of sharp and flat accidentals, which is not uncommon in renaissance and early baroque music. Then you just have to go through, find all the notes you want to change and alter them manually.

In nwc2, Andrew Purdham's global mod user tool can save a lot of legwork.

Geoff

Re: Sharps and flats

Reply #4 –
Ah... I think I see the problem. The piece has to be in its proper key in Midi already, and then it imports without any problem.
A few years ago I joined a choir, where 'Midisoft Studio LE' was used to produce scores. I neve liked it, but at least with this program I can enter the key signature in Midi. When that is there, everthing is imported in Noteworthy as it should be.

So now, the thing you need is such a program... Suggestions, anyone?

Re: Sharps and flats

Reply #5 –
Over at the Scriptorium, there are MIDI disassembler and re-assembler programs. I suppose you could take the MIDI, disassemble, add the key signature in plain text (if you know how) and reassemble. Has anyone tried that?

Re: Sharps and flats

Reply #6 –
Yep. I use mf2t to add KeySigs and alter TimeSigs.
Clears up a lot of things, like: "are these really triplets?"
Registered user since 1996

Re: Sharps and flats

Reply #7 –
They certainly should learn their enharmonics, but in their proper place.  There are times when, for example, D-sharp makes more sense than E-flat.  First is chord-spelling.  If I'm in the key of C and I want to modulate to D by means of its dominant, there's no way I'm going to write the chord as A -D-flat - E instead of A - C-sharp - E, and therefore a C-sharp will be in an individual part.  If these are solo pieces and chords don't matter so much, there's still the appropriateness of using sharps in an ascending line and flats in a descending line (usually).  All I'm saying is that in any given musical passage, there are reasons for a note to be what it is and not its enharmonic, and we want these kids to be reading music as they will ordinarily see it, while also being aware that D-sharp and E-flat are the same tone and have the same fingering.

Re: Sharps and flats

Reply #8 –
I've tried various more-or-less succesful ways to "fool" Noteworthy into being more savvy about accidentals. (It also took me awhile ot realise that even the key of C needs a key signature before you start messing with transposing and forcing accidentals and enharmonic audits and so forth.)

The simplest to use was to write macro files that would do a global "replace" of all Dbs with C#s, for instance. You trendies who didn't stick with Win 3.1 have to add-on htat option, of course...

The simplest thing of all, and I'm going to send this to the wish list, would be if the "audit accidentals" feature worked with "user defined key signatures". I don't know why it doesn't, but then there's lots  I don't know.

Re: Sharps and flats

Reply #9 –
My entry for the wish list, then, would be: Import this Midi-file, and treat it as if a certain key signature would precede the notes.
That saves a ton of trouble.

Re: Sharps and flats

Reply #10 –
"The simplest to use was to write macro files that would do a global "replace" of all Dbs with C#s, for instance."

Much easier in nwc2 as you can (I do) use a user tool for all that stuff.

Re: Sharps and flats

Reply #11 –
I've saved a lot of time with this:
>  use mf2t on the midi
>  insert a KeySig in the txt file (usually you need to use WordPad)
>  use t2mf on the text file.
Registered user since 1996
 

Re: Sharps and flats

Reply #12 –
That sounds great, Rick! It will save some of us a lot of time, and it will less overstretch the usage of a section of the vocabulary at the bottom of the evolutionary ladder.